TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)

[SesnOfWthr]

lurker's comment: Of course, if you really think Greece will attack, then perhaps you could buy Math for gpt?

Do you still have the MA with Greece, or has that since expired?

 

[namliaM]

We still have MA....

Starve away, or pop-rush, or whatever it takes to get the population down.

Cant rush while in Resistance, only in agade there are 3 non-resistors. To get the pop down I started some workers/slaves in them

So, do we push on take Ur? Can we muster enough force quickly enough? What happens if Sumer flips back or is lost?

I say push on, Goal wa them 3 citys we have + Ur.... In anycase it carries some nice wonders.... as an incentive

I am a little concerned about what appears to be a lack of mass in our attacking force and the mountains north of Lagash are uncovered. Does Atlanta have a barracks yet?
And what do we need to pay for Maths?

Also noticed that Greece has Mathematics now and are willing to trade it for 260 gold. I would suggest we take it now before they possibly attack.

I think we need to regroup but we have force "plenty" I think. A total of 20 Archers and 4 more on the way....
Yes Lagash is "uncovered" but with the "guards" covering their precious mines N of Ur, Ur is mostlikely having it a bit rough.
Check to make sure Sum doesnt have techs we are going to buy. Maybe get them techs "the pointy stick way"
Cats will not be in soon enough to help us with this war, maybe the next... I say wait for the Sums to give it to us.

namliaM - got us into war

I did not get us anything, I would have waited untill end of my turnset. Them dumb sums MA-ed with Germany and DoWed on us!!!

I typically starve a city down to 1 pop after taking it to help keep it from defecting. Is this something we should do also?[/Qoute]Cannot starve if you dont have "normal" people. Except for Agade, both towns are fully resisting.

If SF has a garrison it is probably safe.
Temples are not a bad idea in those captured towns.

SF garrison is on the way, but I was late dispatching it from Philly. To get the corruption down are not courthouses better (except for SF which needs some culture... to lower the flip changes)

So, do we push on take Ur? Can we muster enough force quickly enough? What happens if Sumer flips back or is lost?

Its the first turn of capture, no flip chance yet. If we can keep a garrison of 1 spear/archer (maybe 2 archer) there should not be a big problem. I have yet to see more than 2 Archers in the same stack and/or only single Horses. Which they now cannot start anymore.

General
With the currently 7 Archers in and around Sumer we are likely to lose 1 or 2. Leaving 5. Then there are 3 allready NE of Ur. Making 8.
3 in and around Atlanta, 2 more in NY. Making 11
2 more near Chicago and 4 on the way
After taking out the lost Enk and these 4 Archers the new Archers will be ready for "inner defence" to keep blocking them eastern Archers. All other 13 Archers can then march on Ur, should be more than enough (I think)

 

[Methos]

Sumeria does not have Math and that is a very important tech IMO. If we buy it from Greece immediately we can switch production on some of the towns so that we can have several cats very soon. The question arises as to whether they are worth it.

Can we take Ur within the next several turns?
How long would it take to get our cats up there?

In my limited experience I've found any type of artillery to be a major benefit in an invasion so I hesitate to not use them this war. Especially since we don't know how long until this war is over with.

Cant rush while in Resistance, only in agade there are 3 non-resistors. To get the pop down I started some workers/slaves in them

Very true, but as soon as the resistance is over I'll start starving them unless people are against it.

So, do we push on take Ur? Can we muster enough force quickly enough? What happens if Sumer flips back or is lost?

I say push on, Goal wa them 3 citys we have + Ur.... In anycase it carries some nice wonders.... as an incentive

I would have to agree with namliaM on this, so long as we can protect ourself as well. I've had before in my attempt to invade one AI I neglected to protect my opposite borders and was taken out by a "friendly" civ (COTM12 ). So we need to watch ourselves.

I think we need to regroup but we have force "plenty" I think. A total of 20 Archers and 4 more on the way....

We're doing good on Archers and could definitely benefit from more, but just as easily those four more on the way could become four cats on the way too. Sorry, but after invading with cats so much I have really come to like them.

SF garrison is on the way, but I was late dispatching it from Philly.

Currently SF has no defenders in it as well, and it'll take at least a turn, possibly two, before the spear gets there. The Greek unit on an adjacent tile. I'm tempted to do like SesnOfWthr suggested and attempt to buy Math for gpt instead.

 

[Bede]

Buying math for gp twill ot stop the Greek from attacking, but if he does you get the tech for free or at a discount. If he doesn't then you owe some money but I think the economy can afford it.

Looking at the way the borders broke Sumeria has little culture outside the capitol. SO pop-rushing temples as soon as it is feasible will expand the captured borders and make counter attacks harder for foot soldiers.

It will take awhile to get the cats in position if you buy Maths and they will need to be protected on the road. I think push on to Ur without them, then regroup and decide what to do next. It is going to take a real horde of archers, though, to take the capitol.

Or if you can build four cats while regrouping for the march on Ur it is probably a good investment.

 

[soul_warrior]

like our revered teacher, among others said, get MATH for GPT. we can afford it, it will hopefully prevent a greek war, and if it doesnt - we got a free tech.

i would also push the attack. as i see it the cats wont come into efefct for then next 10 or so. hopefully it will be over by then.

 

[namliaM]

Them 20 archers are 'somewhat' devided in our empire, but can be brought into line within a few turns.

At one point (Turn 7) I had 8 archers on Ur's doorstep, but thinking about Bede's 'We need a lot for Ur' I heasitated, got attacked and broke off. Pillaged the Gem road and blocked the Shields for Ur, went for sumer instead. Maybe we should starve it down a bit to <=6, take away that 50% bonus? What if we pillage away all improvements, can Gil maintain it at 9 pop?
ie. Pillage, take everything else, come back for Ur...

I think we need Cats too, but... They will come to late to help with Ur (my oppion). Once Ur has fallen then the whole bit is ours for the taking (again my oppion) with or without Cats

I do agre on the gpt deal, tho we are still in MA and the Archer was allready there before I settled SF.

I will take full blame for it if SF is sacked by Greece, for I was late dispatching its MP.

 

[Methos]

Got it, though as I mentioned before we have guests coming tonight so I won't be able to play until tomorrow (Wednesday) night.

Understand about the cats, it'll probably take to long to get them to Ur. So instead mass produce archers and send them north in waves then? What about namlaiM's idea of pillaging Ur and instead taking all the rest of Sumeria's cities first, and than taking Ur when it's the only one left? I realize Ur is a very profitable city but am unsure if we have what it takes to take it right now. Just a thought.

From memory I believe there are two spears and three archers outside of Ur. Thinking it over I don't know if that would be enough to take it. I don't want to end this war but am uncertain about our ability to take Ur.

It seems agreed to go for the gpt deal with Greece just in case.

 

[namliaM]

If we take Ur, we will need more than them 3 archers and 2 spears to take it... I would not feel comfertable with less than 10 archers... personnaly (I had the change with 8 and chickened out.)

The "safest way" I think is to take Ur and circel around, dont know if it is the most effective way.
Might be nice to get them horses to our lands, so we can build horses instead of Archers, They are faster and are better upgradable (I think).

Regards

 

[Methos]

Might be nice to get them horses to our lands, so we can build horses instead of Archers, They are faster and are better upgradable (I think).

This is a definite plan, as the nearest source of Iron is on the southern portion of our landmass.

 

[Bede]

I like the plan of wrecking the economy at Ur, while re-gathering the forces. We won't be able to do much in the way of starvation as there enough in the way of two food fields available and we won't be able to cover them all but Gil will probably do a fair amount of pop-rushing if we make him uncomfortable enough and that will bring the population down. Without access to horsemen his counters will be archers from the south and we can deal with those.

 

[Methos]

So, my current plans are:

Starve our captured cities down to a more desirable population amount
Get rid of the resistance (possibly rush a temple-removes pop)
Pillage Ur
Take as many Sumerian cities to the west of Ur as possible
Buy Math from Greece
Mass produce archers
Connect horse

These are my current plans at the moment, please list any comments/suggestions/advice/alternative that any of you may have. I don’t plan on playing until after I wake up late this afternoon.

Question: Do I have to wait until my actual turnset (as in press the spacebar) before I can trade with Greece? What about anything else?

@namliaM: Out of curiosity how many and how often did Sumeria send troops up from the cities located southeast of America? How often were troops coming from Ur? Did it appear that any troops were coming from the northwest or west of Ur? I’m just trying to get an idea of where most of the resistance forces are coming from, or what cities are Sumeria’s productive ones.

 

[namliaM]

I would say read the log, it is all (and i do mean ALL) there every attack every defence.....

What you see now is probably the second wave of its kind from the east, I think you should keep an archer or 4 "nearish" our 3 "exposed" city's (WDC, NY and Atlanta).

The twins are the 2nd or third as well "of their kind".

Ur is not pop rushing that I have seen, is sum still in depo?
I have seen 1 archer and 1 horseman from Ur
1 horseman from the city N of Ur
Some lose archers around.

My bet: He was building some infastructure or was upping the number of Enks and has (more or less) finished it. He started on horses, but lost his source and now switched to Archers (which are 10 shields cheaper). I would expect 'a couple of' archers yet....

Remeber Gil has about 15 turns of GA left and is probably "mass producing" them.
Come to think of it, maybe keep 2 more archers around Lagash
1) Defend the mountains there.
2) help in defence of lagash

@your Question. I think that is Known as the "Pre turn" as you can see from my Pre turn i did quite some MM-ing before continuing.... I would say feel free to change about anything and making trades.

 

[Methos]

I'm awake and will start playing shortly.

 

[Bede]

The "preturn" belongs to you, so make whatever moves you think appropriate. scoutsout once captured three cities and popped two leaders on an interturn I handed him.

 

[Methos]

Sorry everyone, I just couldn’t keep my head in the game. I temporarily lost Sumer (due to flipping) but got it back the following turn. The only city I managed to take was Ereck. I played for over three hours and didn’t really accomplish much. I did after several phone calls manage to fix my mothers’ computer.

Sumeria is willing to take peace and give Republic for it. I managed to keep the upper hand in the war so I see no reason yet to sue for peace. I did take peace with Germany though.

We currently have two active trades, with Greece and Persia. Both we are paying gpt in the hopes of keeping them off of our backs. I did some minor trading getting us both Mathematics and Map Making.

My apologies again, I just couldn't stay focused for some reason.

Here's the save

 

[Bede]

@Methos, will look at the save in detail, but you had the toughest assignment, getting troops back in order and preparing an assault on the capitol. Good dealing for Maths and Maps.


S'ven - on the line and up
Bede - waiting
soul - fixed my boo-boos
namliaM - got war
Methos - hoed a hard row

 

[Bede]

Sorry everyone, I just couldn’t keep my head in the game. I temporarily lost Sumer (due to flipping) but got it back the following turn. The only city I managed to take was Ereck. I played for over three hours and didn’t really accomplish much. I did after several phone calls manage to fix my mothers’ computer.

Sumeria is willing to take peace and give Republic for it. I managed to keep the upper hand in the war so I see no reason yet to sue for peace. I did take peace with Germany though.

We currently have two active trades, with Greece and Persia. Both we are paying gpt in the hopes of keeping them off of our backs. I did some minor trading getting us both Mathematics and Map Making.

My apologies again, I just couldn't stay focused for some reason.

Here's the save

Despite what you may think you have left us in great shape. Sumer is cut in two, lacks a strong offense and the horses are on line.

The anarchy while they switched governements helped but so did the capitol pillaging. With only a half dozen shields available their defense building was crippled, and the their offensive capabilities are almost non-existent.

Suggestions for next set:
Switch archers to horses where we can get them in three turns or less. Get some cats started after the horses are up, get everybody healed and the towns defended and get ready for the march on Ur. The western coastal towns need to be working on galleys then harbors.

 

[namliaM]

Despite what you may think you have left us in great shape. Sumer is cut in two, lacks a strong offense and the horses are on line.

Agree, tho I am missing a screeny or 2 ??? LOL

Greece: We get Mathematics; we give 13 gpt
----
Babylon: We get 110 gold; we give Mathematics
Persia: We get Map Making; we give Mathematics and 7gpt

Nice bit of brokering as well... Get math at 13 * 20 = 260 gold minus the 110 we recieve from Babylon = 150g
Then get Map Making @ 7 * 20 = 140g
Only thing I am doubting would Math have been better (and available) at 10gpt + Lump sum (spending less that the 260g? in total)
and Would Map Making been available for 5gpt + Lump Sum
But we are talking maybe 10 to 20 gold max savings.... (per trade) not that much, but over all the trades it adds up...

The anarchy while they switched governements helped but so did the capitol pillaging. With only a half dozen shields available their defense building was crippled, and the their offensive capabilities are almost non-existent.

Who would go into anarchy while getting the short end of the stick in a war? And in the midst of a GA as well... Geez AI...

Now that we have them horses, and they do not... They should be toast sooner rather than later. Maybe keep them around a bit longer for the "pointy stick" research. Where should we leave them a town or 2 ? On the easter board (one or two of them jungle towns way out there that would get highly corrupt anyway?)

@Methos do you have the pre-trade turn saves? If not I can reinact to find out...

Suggestions for next set:
Switch archers to horses where we can get them in three turns or less. Get some cats started after the horses are up, get everybody healed and the towns defended and get ready for the march on Ur. The western coastal towns need to be working on galleys then harbors.

I think only WDC is capable of doing 3 turns or less. Build horses anywhere that has barracks?
Cats where we have no Barracks?
Get some markets up (pre build some maybe?) for the extra $

Galleys then Harbors? Not reverse? Get vet Galleys?! + them towns (Boston and Philly are allready fishing, so they would benifit from -earlier- the extra food)

 

[Methos]

Suggestions for next set:
Switch archers to horses where we can get them in three turns or less.

I think only WDC is capable of doing 3 turns or less.

namliaM is correct as far as I can remember. I went through and checked as soon as we had it hooked up and felt at that time it wasn’t worth it building them. Instead I just continued with the archers.

Only thing I am doubting would Math have been better (and available) at 10gpt + Lump sum (spending less that the 260g? in total)
and Would Map Making been available for 5gpt + Lump Sum
But we are talking maybe 10 to 20 gold max savings.... (per trade) not that much, but over all the trades it adds up...

I hadn’t even thought of that as I was hoping the larger sum of gpt would help keep the AI from breaking the deal and declaring on us. I was particularly worried about Persia since there was no AI buffer between us. Something definitely to consider in the future.

@Methos do you have the pre-trade turn saves? If not I can reinact to find out...

Sorry, but no.

@S’ven: Don’t worry, I left you a sizeable force within Sumeria so that should help you out. Not for sure which direction we want to go though.

Agree, tho I am missing a screeny or 2 ??? LOL

Here's a pic of the current placement of troops:

 

[soul_warrior]

thanx methos for the screenies
things look even better than i had thought.

i would use the "AGADE" garrison move against Isin (leave the spear for defense), while the "SUMER" garrison moves agaist that northern town north of Isin. after these two are takes (along with the DYES) they can either swing back towards UR or combine and head north to finish the job.
you have there 7 archers. maybe join them at ISIN then take it and go north.
on the "UR" front, there is a spear there and 6-7 archers. these can certainly hold off any counter attacks on their own, wait till we have another 5 units or so, and then attack. just pillage UR into starvation.
the south could use a little bolstering up, but it can wait. maybe dedicate a few troops back there from the near produced ones? 2-3 more spears would ease my mind alot.
i NEVER trust either greeks nor persians.