The 19 civs that should be in Civ 4
- Thread starter German Soldier
- Start date
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
1)China
2)Rome
3)Greece
4)England
5)France
6)Egypt
7)America
8)Japan
9)Tibet
10)Mongols
11)Carthage
12)Aztecs
12)Inca
13)Germany
14)Russia
15)Korea
16)Spain
17)Portugal
18)Hebrews
19)Iroqouis
2)Rome
3)Greece
4)England
5)France
6)Egypt
7)America
8)Japan
9)Tibet
10)Mongols
11)Carthage
12)Aztecs
12)Inca
13)Germany
14)Russia
15)Korea
16)Spain
17)Portugal
18)Hebrews
19)Iroqouis
"We all know of Alexander origins and we still put Alexander for Greece.
And Cleopatra for Egypt (a pure Egyptian blood example)."
Cleopatra was very much Greek, actually...
'Alexander the Great took Egypt from the Persians in 332 BC and made it a part of the the Greek Empire. In the first part of 331 BC, shortly after being crowned Pharaoh in Memphis, he sailed northwards down the Nile and there, prompted by a dream, he began his most lasting contribution to civilization. On the natural harbor near Rhacotis he built a fortified port and named it, in a moment of egotism, Alexandria. Alexander then connected the island of Pharos, located in the center of the bay, to the mainland with a 1,300-meter causeway, the Heptastadion. Thus two great harbors were created for his city and towering over it all, the Pharos Lighthouse, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Yet Alexander, true to his nature, did not say long enough to see a single building built of his new city. Instead, he traveled to Siwa and then back to Memphis before setting out on his conquest of Asia. He never returned, dying in Babylon at the age of 38.
Following Alexander's death, his generals divided the Empire, each setting up their own kingdoms. One of them, Ptolemy, took Egypt as his share and made Alexandria his capital, ruling as Ptolemy I Soter and thus established the last dynasty that would rule Egypt with the title of Pharaoh. He brought Alexander's body with him to be buried in the city, reuniting the famed conqueror with the city that bore his name. For the next two-and-a-half centuries, the Ptolemaic dynasty of the Greeks would successfully rule Egypt, mingling Hellenic traditions with the mighty legacy of the Pharaohs.
It was under the Ptolemaic Dynasty that Alexandria truly became the cultural and economic center of the ancient world. Egypt was ruled from Alexandria by Ptolemy's descendants until the death of Cleopatra VII in 30 BC.'
http://www.touregypt.net/alexhis1.htm
And Cleopatra for Egypt (a pure Egyptian blood example)."
Cleopatra was very much Greek, actually...
'Alexander the Great took Egypt from the Persians in 332 BC and made it a part of the the Greek Empire. In the first part of 331 BC, shortly after being crowned Pharaoh in Memphis, he sailed northwards down the Nile and there, prompted by a dream, he began his most lasting contribution to civilization. On the natural harbor near Rhacotis he built a fortified port and named it, in a moment of egotism, Alexandria. Alexander then connected the island of Pharos, located in the center of the bay, to the mainland with a 1,300-meter causeway, the Heptastadion. Thus two great harbors were created for his city and towering over it all, the Pharos Lighthouse, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Yet Alexander, true to his nature, did not say long enough to see a single building built of his new city. Instead, he traveled to Siwa and then back to Memphis before setting out on his conquest of Asia. He never returned, dying in Babylon at the age of 38.
Following Alexander's death, his generals divided the Empire, each setting up their own kingdoms. One of them, Ptolemy, took Egypt as his share and made Alexandria his capital, ruling as Ptolemy I Soter and thus established the last dynasty that would rule Egypt with the title of Pharaoh. He brought Alexander's body with him to be buried in the city, reuniting the famed conqueror with the city that bore his name. For the next two-and-a-half centuries, the Ptolemaic dynasty of the Greeks would successfully rule Egypt, mingling Hellenic traditions with the mighty legacy of the Pharaohs.
It was under the Ptolemaic Dynasty that Alexandria truly became the cultural and economic center of the ancient world. Egypt was ruled from Alexandria by Ptolemy's descendants until the death of Cleopatra VII in 30 BC.'
http://www.touregypt.net/alexhis1.htm
Sumeria should be no-brainer if you ask me. The very cradle of CIVILIZATION. They gave us writing, cities, agriculture, justice system, surgery, metalsmithing, pottery, domestication, organized religion, recording of history and time, you name it, they gave it. As for leader, it would have to be Gilgamesh I guess.
China is in of course. Leader Qin. They were living in palaces when we over in western europe were living in dirt huts. Always been a major influence in Asia and the world.
Same goes for India. Unsure about leader, though.
Mongols in. Anyone capable of of conquering most of asia and parts of europe deserves a slot IMO. Djengis Khan?
Japan - unsure. Where they really such an influence before the modern age?
Scandinavia - Yes, the "bloodthirsty" and "barbaric" vikings where great explorers, important traders and settlers. They established many russian principicalities. Where important and highly regarded mercenaries for the byzantine emperors. Settled parts of britain and normandy and "discovered" america. Ragnar is fine.
Germans - of course. They have always been a LARGE influence in european history. Not just counting the WW's. Bismarck is good.
France - naturally. A world-spanning influence grants them this slot. Charlemagne would be better I think
Spain - Same as above. Leader, not sure.
England - Same as above. Liz is good.
Rome - of course. Caesar is good.
Greece - Passed on and created the foundations of western society. Alexander is good. Come on, he IS the GREAT.
Russia - not a unified russia till late, but a significant world influence. Peter the Great.
USA - basically same as above. Lincoln is good.
Egypt - The most ancient "civ" still going. Not Cleopatra. Ramses the 2. is fine I guess.
Arabs - significant world religion and culture. Not sure about leader. Maybe Abu is good enough?
Incas - more a civ than aztecs if you ask me. Aztecs never were that many for that long. They made great feats of construction and infrastructure. Can't remember any leader names.
Persia - maintained world power-status for a looong time. Xerxes is good.
Byzantine - Roman heirs. Held back arabs for 500 years. Scientific, religious and industrously important. Constantin perhaps?
Portugal - World wide influence and power in history. Not sure about leader.
Dutch - Same as above
Koreans - Not sure. Don't know enough of their history I guess
Khmer - Same as above.
Zulu - Not sure. Would like to have at least one sub-saharan civ, though.
Babylon - They can stay. They keep the sumerian legacy going and historically and biblically important IMO. Hammurabi is fine.
Hebrew - yes, maybe not that great as a nation(?), but very important historically/religiously. Solomon.
Aztecs/Maya - Not sure. Would like one of them, though. Don't know that much about mayans.
Iroqouis - Big questionmark, should they be in?
China is in of course. Leader Qin. They were living in palaces when we over in western europe were living in dirt huts. Always been a major influence in Asia and the world.
Same goes for India. Unsure about leader, though.
Mongols in. Anyone capable of of conquering most of asia and parts of europe deserves a slot IMO. Djengis Khan?
Japan - unsure. Where they really such an influence before the modern age?
Scandinavia - Yes, the "bloodthirsty" and "barbaric" vikings where great explorers, important traders and settlers. They established many russian principicalities. Where important and highly regarded mercenaries for the byzantine emperors. Settled parts of britain and normandy and "discovered" america. Ragnar is fine.
Germans - of course. They have always been a LARGE influence in european history. Not just counting the WW's. Bismarck is good.
France - naturally. A world-spanning influence grants them this slot. Charlemagne would be better I think
Spain - Same as above. Leader, not sure.
England - Same as above. Liz is good.
Rome - of course. Caesar is good.
Greece - Passed on and created the foundations of western society. Alexander is good. Come on, he IS the GREAT.
Russia - not a unified russia till late, but a significant world influence. Peter the Great.
USA - basically same as above. Lincoln is good.
Egypt - The most ancient "civ" still going. Not Cleopatra. Ramses the 2. is fine I guess.
Arabs - significant world religion and culture. Not sure about leader. Maybe Abu is good enough?
Incas - more a civ than aztecs if you ask me. Aztecs never were that many for that long. They made great feats of construction and infrastructure. Can't remember any leader names.
Persia - maintained world power-status for a looong time. Xerxes is good.
Byzantine - Roman heirs. Held back arabs for 500 years. Scientific, religious and industrously important. Constantin perhaps?
Portugal - World wide influence and power in history. Not sure about leader.
Dutch - Same as above
Koreans - Not sure. Don't know enough of their history I guess
Khmer - Same as above.
Zulu - Not sure. Would like to have at least one sub-saharan civ, though.
Babylon - They can stay. They keep the sumerian legacy going and historically and biblically important IMO. Hammurabi is fine.
Hebrew - yes, maybe not that great as a nation(?), but very important historically/religiously. Solomon.
Aztecs/Maya - Not sure. Would like one of them, though. Don't know that much about mayans.
Iroqouis - Big questionmark, should they be in?
I think it's obvious what country I want in that list.
19 won't be nearly enough civs, though. I hope they made the game able to handle more than 31 civs this time.
Why isn't any country in Sub-Saharan Africa worthy of inclusion? Ethiopia was an important power during the first to eighth century A.D. In fact, Persians declared the four major powers to be China, Rome, Persia, and Ethiopia.DBear said:
19 won't be nearly enough civs, though. I hope they made the game able to handle more than 31 civs this time.
Saltylicious
Lackey
German Soldier said:
I'm sorry if someone has already said this, but Portugal was an Allied power in WWI.
Portuguese
Vassalising Spain
Americans seem reluctant to agnowledge the importance of Indo-European culture in world historytoh6wy said:
May I suggest some names?RexMundi said:
1 - Prince Henry, the Navigator: Americans know him best.
2 - King D. João (John) II, the Perfect Prince: leaded Portugal to it's GA
3 - King D. Manuel II, The Lucky: leader during the GA
4 - King D. Pedro (Peter) IV, (don't know this data): King of Portugal and 1st Emperor of Brazil
5 - King D. Anfonso Henriques, the Conqueror: 1st king of Portugal, having doubled the original territory, expelling Arabs from a bunch of great cities, including Lisbon.
Portuguese
Vassalising Spain
That's why we conquered Ceuta and many other Morroco cities in the 1400's, secured half the globe in 1494 under the pope protection, conquered Goa in 1510, Ormuz, Madrid in 1750's, Brazil (to natives and then to Netherlands, in it's GA), defended from Napoleon grasp, contributed to WWI La Lys battle...
We never had very good opponents, but at least we beat them all in the battlefield, only loosing by other means. Besides, we have a history of almost 900 years, although bigger (in size of motherland) countries have tried to conquer us.
: PROUD :
We never had very good opponents, but at least we beat them all in the battlefield, only loosing by other means. Besides, we have a history of almost 900 years, although bigger (in size of motherland) countries have tried to conquer us.
: PROUD :
Nobody
Gangster
what about canada
Chinese American
Hamtastic Knight
ya what about them? 
covenant
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2004
- Messages
- 162
I think the real question is not which civs, but is the number hardwired so we cant add more. I know the modders will fill out the list quite well (though I am totally against modders needing to do this, Fraxis should supply a complete game and that includes a healthy diversified number of civs out of the box at 50 dollars, which should be closer to 30.)
I really hate that I can only play with 8 civs on the standard map. I want to have as many as I like.
I really hate that I can only play with 8 civs on the standard map. I want to have as many as I like.
Landmonitor
Prince
German Soldier said:
Uuh, if you were to read ab out WW2, you'd quickly realize that it was the Soviety Union that broke Germany's back and would have continued to do so right through to the atlantic coast of France. America's biggest contribution was giving the Soviet soldiers boots, trucks, and ammunition. The Western allies (of which America was admiteddly the largest contributing factor) did liberate France, but Germany was a lost cause by then anyway. I am in no way trying to play the heroic actions of American, British, Candian, and French soldiers, but to say that if it wasn't for America that Germany would have won the second world war is a gross overstatement of their contribution to the war effort.
I hate to rant about this, but it really bugs me when people make this claim.
Landmonitor
Prince
Yeah, the Americans did help by propping Russia up, but the stuff I've read consistently indicates that the biggest factors in deciding the course of the war (in Europe) were:
1- Mistakes made by politicians interfering with German military planning (almost all of the generals who were charged with drafting Barbarossa were against the plan, saying that it wouldn't work)
2- Alienation of the Russian and Ukrainian people who were in many cases glad to be rid of Stalin until they realized that the new people in charge treated them even worse. Maybe Hitler should have read Machievelli (sp) before implementing his "questionable foreign policy". This led to heavy partisan actions, which compounded the next point:
3- Russia is BIG, and because of partisans, manpower which could have been placed at the front had to be spread to a greater degree through the country. Germany didn't have enough troops and equipment to effectively police this area AND maintnain occupations in Western and Northern Europe (Africa is hardly worth mentioning here since they committed very little manpower to that theatre). This made feeding and providing ammunition to the troops futher to the east problematic to say the least.
4- Russia simply had a much larger population and industrial base (even more so if bombings are factored in; maybe if Germany woudl have had more He-177's and maybe if the engines on those planes weren't prone to starting on fire, this would have been different, but it wasn't) than Germany, and once it came down to slugging matches like Stalingrad and Kursk, that factor really favoured them.
5- The T-34.
Wow. That was really off-topic, but I enjoyed it! I haven't discussed WW2 in a long time! Maybe I should include some stuff about the 19 civs.
Here are the 19 civs I would include:
1) Rome
2) Greece
3) Egypt
4) Sumer
5) Persia
6) England
7) France
8) Germany
9) Russia
10) Spain
11) Ethiopia
12) Arabs
13) India
14) China
15) Mongolia
16) Iroquois
17) Inca
18) Aztecs
19) America (but with a Civil War era UU)
20) Quebec, or, maybe Saskatchewan, but definetely not Manitoba
Of course they'll make expansions, but I think this list would make a good starting point, and I hope they spread the game out a bit without making it too Euro-centric, but also there is the question of where the game is being played and the people buying it probably want to play their own country. For they make expansions, I hope the Assyrians get included, they'd make a great militaristic Civ.
1- Mistakes made by politicians interfering with German military planning (almost all of the generals who were charged with drafting Barbarossa were against the plan, saying that it wouldn't work)
2- Alienation of the Russian and Ukrainian people who were in many cases glad to be rid of Stalin until they realized that the new people in charge treated them even worse. Maybe Hitler should have read Machievelli (sp) before implementing his "questionable foreign policy". This led to heavy partisan actions, which compounded the next point:
3- Russia is BIG, and because of partisans, manpower which could have been placed at the front had to be spread to a greater degree through the country. Germany didn't have enough troops and equipment to effectively police this area AND maintnain occupations in Western and Northern Europe (Africa is hardly worth mentioning here since they committed very little manpower to that theatre). This made feeding and providing ammunition to the troops futher to the east problematic to say the least.
4- Russia simply had a much larger population and industrial base (even more so if bombings are factored in; maybe if Germany woudl have had more He-177's and maybe if the engines on those planes weren't prone to starting on fire, this would have been different, but it wasn't) than Germany, and once it came down to slugging matches like Stalingrad and Kursk, that factor really favoured them.
5- The T-34.
Wow. That was really off-topic, but I enjoyed it! I haven't discussed WW2 in a long time! Maybe I should include some stuff about the 19 civs.
Here are the 19 civs I would include:
1) Rome
2) Greece
3) Egypt
4) Sumer
5) Persia
6) England
7) France
8) Germany
9) Russia
10) Spain
11) Ethiopia
12) Arabs
13) India
14) China
15) Mongolia
16) Iroquois
17) Inca
18) Aztecs
19) America (but with a Civil War era UU)
20) Quebec, or, maybe Saskatchewan, but definetely not Manitoba
Of course they'll make expansions, but I think this list would make a good starting point, and I hope they spread the game out a bit without making it too Euro-centric, but also there is the question of where the game is being played and the people buying it probably want to play their own country. For they make expansions, I hope the Assyrians get included, they'd make a great militaristic Civ.
dc82
Prince
even tho a greater percentage of russia is in asia, i think for the most part, russia wud be more of a european civ - the seat of the government/power has always been in the europe-side, along w/ the greater percentage of the population. most of russia's policies have been also influenced by europe, at least more than by asia.
Landmonitor
Prince
rbis4rbb said:
Yeah, the Quebec thing was a joke, but I definetely don't think Manitoba should be in there. Saskatchewan, on the other hand, has a rich and unique culture that has impacted the world and should definetely be included!
I agree that fewer European Civs is a good idea, but I think Spain is a good one to include, as they had a heavy impact on the new world. Also, I'd agree with dc82, most of the important bits of Russia are west of the Urals and they always had more to do with European affairs than asian ones (Siberia is pretty empty!).
Also, lumping Rome and Greece in with Germany, Britain, and France seems a little weird, since those three countries really came into their own in terms of culture much later than Rome. I don't see the divisions as being purely geographical, but also divided by time, in which case I'd include Rome and Greece with the Mesopotamian and African cultures.
That's just me though.
I'm going to need a new graphics card for Civ IV I think...
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