The +2 Great Prophet Points civic is useless

[Montymolethedog]

This card requires a wildcard slot in order to be used. Wildcard slots are only unlocked with PP (unless you are playing as Greece), when you can get a tier 1 government. At this point, almost always, most of the religions have been taken, and +2 will barely help. Maybe there is a specific situation in which this is helpful, but thus far I have found it completely useless. Can anyone else think of a good use for this civic?

 

[trojan13]

If you've met early culture CS, then the turn unlocking PP is significantly shorten. Other case would be Rome having free monuments. But still it is hard to found a religion in deity. But still it saves few hundreds golds to rush buy the last great prophet.

 

[Montymolethedog]

If you've met early culture CS, then the turn unlocking PP is significantly shorten. Other case would be Rome having free monuments. But still it is hard to found a religion in deity. But still it saves few hundreds golds to rush buy the last great prophet.

Thanks for the reply, definitely interesting to consider. A bit annoying that this is only really useful in such specific circumstances.

 

[Onii-chan]

Nah it's useful. You just have to hit all the boosts as you rush for PP and then Mysticism, which is very doable because they're all easy boosts. If you do that then there should only be like 2 religions out yet or so (Stonehenge + some religious civ in the game), and you're already well on your way to your own from having a holy site + shrine. The card is just something you use for like 10 turns or something as an extra boost whilst doing holy site prayers in order to guarantee a religion. Finding a cultural CS early or getting a cultural pantheon also helps, but it's not a necessity

If we're talking about Deity though then it's going to be closer but you can still found a religion this way. Just not 100% guaranteed

 

[stormtrooper412]

Well if you want the best chance of a religion vic you'd play Russia anyway

 

[Ryika]

I find that on Deity it's really only reliably useful for Greece. In any other case it's probably quicker and safer to get a ton of Faith rolling one way or the other and then buy the Prophet.

I'd assume it has more uses on very low difficulties.

But either way, I agree - all of the three Great Person Policy Cards that become available before you can even slot them in a normal scenario are really weird design choices, and the Great Prophet Card is easily the worst offended, because it goes obsolete either shortly after you can socket it, or on Deity, depending on your strategy, map size, and the other players on the map, sometimes even before you CAN even socket it.

I've played around with making the Economic Slot of the first government into a wildcard slot, but that has its own problems, namely that a Civic suddenly becomes the best way of getting a religion, almost completely removing the tilt towards religious Civs. So I'm not quite sure what to do with the policy.

 

[ansa]

Huh? I always found it reliably useful on Deity.
Yes you don't have the violet slot until you unlock governments, so rush governments.

- Build monuments everywhere. It also helps when you capture cities with monuments
- God of the open sky pantheon helps too with extra culture

Then you slap the card in, and I reliably founded a religion even when not going for that victory type - just because I wanted faith buying options.
Usually 2 cities with holy sites is enough. Sometimes I just capture a nearby religious city-state to get their holy site, then build shrines there and my capital.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Huh? I always found it reliably useful on Deity.

Huh as you said!

Even on Immortal 2-3 religions are taken before i can reach Political Philosophy. When i reach it i have to go for Mysticism which could mean another religion is gone leaving only 1 (if no Saladin). When i can finally slot the card another civ is probably at 4-5 Great Prophet points/turn for the last prophet and the card only brings me on-par with them, but with less accumulated points! Trying to run Prayers at that time is very risky as they have probably accumulated enough gold/faith to patronize it.
Of course i might get PP a little faster by building Monuments rather then Holy Sites but then i would have almost no accumulated points when i slot the card making the race impossible to win.

For me, it's like Ryika said, only useful for Greece (Rome or someone lucky with early culture might be able to get a small use out of it)

In any other case it's probably quicker and safer to get a ton of Faith rolling one way or the other and then buy the Prophet.

Getting enough faith seems unlikely unless you are Russia (but then you hardly need it). I find the most reliable way is to go for the second prophet running 2 prayers immediately after the Holy Site is built in the capital.

 

[trojan13]

I think you guys need to clarify the game speed. On the current version, chop yield is the same no matter what speed setup you choose. So in standard, you need to chop twice(mostly around 25 yield) to place holy site, again chop twice more to get project done for 20 GPP so you need 6 chops to get religion on. On online speed I tested few days ago, you need to chop once to place holy site(half price), chop one more to get project done, and GPP cost only half so you can found religion if starting location have good production tile to pop builder fast. I play in standard speed only so I think it's very hard if not Russia or Arabia but it would be not costly and difficult in faster speed setup.

 

[BURTMACKLINFBI]

I just used it to rush and get the second to last GP (Arabia or whatever civ automatically gets the last one was in the game too). It was useful for about 5 turns, but it was INSANELY useful for those five turns lol

That said, I've played 10 full games or so, and this is the first time i've ever seen use for it.

 

[agonistes]

It was useful for about 5 turns, but it was INSANELY useful for those five turns lol

That should put this argument to bed. But it won't.

 

[Nefelia]

I'm hopeful that religion will be fleshed out in future patches and/or expansions and that there will be a use for Great Prophets and Great Prophet Points beyond just securing a religion. Once that happens, this policy card will become a little bit more useful.

 

[ansa]

Huh as you said!

Even on Immortal 2-3 religions are taken before i can reach Political Philosophy. When i reach it i have to go for Mysticism which could mean another religion is gone leaving only 1 (if no Saladin). When i can finally slot the card another civ is probably at 4-5 Great Prophet points/turn for the last prophet and the card only brings me on-par with them, but with less accumulated points! Trying to run Prayers at that time is very risky as they have probably accumulated enough gold/faith to patronize it.
Of course i might get PP a little faster by building Monuments rather then Holy Sites but then i would have almost no accumulated points when i slot the card making the race impossible to win.

For me, it's like Ryika said, only useful for Greece (Rome or someone lucky with early culture might be able to get a small use out of it)

Man, I do not know what you are doing wrong.
I play Deity, standard speed.
I build second warrior from start to scout for world wonder eureka a.s.a.p. and research Animal Husbandry->Archery->Astrology.

- If I see a religious city-state nearby, I spam 3-4 slingers to upgrade into Archers, get in position and attack it as soon as they finish building their holy site. Meanwhile I build holy site at my capital.
- If I don't see it anywhere near, I build holy site at my capital first, then capture some city-state nearby and build one there as well.
- Always make sure to fit a monument early so you have extra culture going for government to get the pink card. Culture you beeline to government and then beeline to Theology for the prophet card.
- If you use broken horse economy, it is even easier to just buy the prophet.
- Build/buy Shrines in your 2 cities soon as you can as well of course.
- If you got a bunch of stones, of course get +2 faith from stones instead of culture from pastures
- OF COURSE if there is a nearby civ like Egypt/Russia, instead of wanking with city-states go hit them a.s.a.p. as soon as they slam a holy site on their city you are going to take.

Ever since I put my mind to go for religion no matter what my victory type is, I had no problems founding religion, ever.
Try to see what you are doing wrong.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Try to see what you are doing wrong.

Maybe not using horse economy (even when it was an option)
Also, i don't take nearby CS as i like the benefit i get from the free envoy.

You can really do all this by turn 60? Cause in my experience it's the absolute maximum turn to get a religion (in most games they are all gone before) and T60 is approximately when i can hope to get Mysticism unless i play some early culture power like Rome.

BTW, i rarely have troubles getting a Religion, but it's because i use Prayers, not thanks to the card.

 

[isau]

I personally think they need to change the card slots on the first government you obtain from War/Economy to War/Wild Card. That would make the early game more interesting and less of a beeline to early governments.

 

[culdeus]

Since the update I'm seeing AI get Stonehenge in the T45 range. (Immortal)

 

[Miravlix]

I simply can't get a wild card slot and the card before religions is gone.

I make a holy site and use the holy site project until I get a religion, that is as far as I know the optimal way, building a shine is X turns with only +1 GP from the holy site (two with the pantheon), where holy site project seems to be something like 20 ish GP pr. X turns.

 

[idjit]

Playing a deity game now and was doing everything I could to get a religion.

They were all gone by T49.

Yeah, that prophet card needs a lil' work lol.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Since the update I'm seeing AI get Stonehenge in the T45 range. (Immortal)

Just saw an AI build it T28 (Immortal) so it's still unreliable.

 

[Soffacet]

Not every card needs to be useful in every situation. Revelation is a good card in many situations. Greece in particular can make excellent use of it. Unless you are Greece or Russia or Arabia it is going to be fairly difficult to get a religion in high difficulty single player. I'm not sure what the OP thinks the problem is.