The AI knows where all troops are - proof!

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I watched a very strange Ai behaviour yesterday (in one of the games that frustrated me so) and now I realzied that i might have proof for a sucky cheat.

An AI Galley is going northwards along my coast for a diversionary attack.
I move troops towards the AIs captial, moving 2 Horsemen out of a city. Now, they cannot come back round and protect the adjacent city in 1 turn. Suddenly, the Galley turns round and outs an Archer next to the now attacker-free city!!!!! There was no way for the AI to know that the city is now not only empty (why didn't they go for it earlier????) and the Horsemen drawn off.

So obviously, this shows the Ai knows the exact position of individual troops - not just as I always though the "general strength in certain areas"

here you see the galleys path the tunr before and the two Horsemen that can't cover Thermophylae now.

and here is what happened next.




So obviously, the AI doen's only know if there is a unit in a city, it can see the entire troops all the time!

 

[Qitai]

Never doubt this. I blockade coast in places that AI has no possibility of knowing and galleys would turn back. I manupilated AI many times that way.

 

[Baron Scot]

is that irrigation you have a mod? looks really nice. and whats with the mountains? all the tops are grey?

 

[Higher Game]

So, you can still trade your world map to the AI! I think that the AI needs a little help sometimes. I guess that is their version of of the handy autosave feature.

By the way, what mod are you using, Killer?

 

[Civddict]

now, you didn't quit

 

[Sirp]

Yeah, no kidding; this is very obvious, very quickly. If I have a single city undefended, right in the middle of my empire, the AI beelines for it.

 

[sumthinelse]

Somebody had a theory that the AI could only cheat like this on tiles that were not in its FOW (Fog of War). In other words, somebody would have to trade the AI a map including Thermopylae; after that it can see everything that happens there. I honestly don't know if that is true.

Killer, I don't know if this means you are back, but it's fun for us to look at your games. Don't you think this is a little bit fun?

 

[simwiz2]

I noticed something similar, sometimes when the AI is sending a galley around your coast and a city in front of it prduces a caravel or other stronger ship, it turns around and runs, even though it supposedly cannot see the caravel which is out of its LoS and in a city.

One time a galley was coming towards a coastal city and I rushed a catapult... what do you know the galley happened to go out into the ocean and avoid the catapult's range.

 

[docceh]

One thing that I have noted, don't know if it's been mentioned, is that the AI knows when you have explored areas that it has not.

Let me explain...

If you have traded your world map to the AI, it will not give you anything for the same world map if nothing new is discovered.

HOWEVER, if you reveal more terrain, that the AI has not, the AI will know this and therefore give you something worthwhile for it.

This is, obviously, in the aid of gameplay, but when we ask for the AIs world map, we have no way of knowing if there is anything else worth getting!

You could get the AIs world map and still have no new explored land!

And of course, I really do hate the lack of Diplomacy settings in the editor. I mean, we couldn't expect such a huge advancement as Events ... but Diplomacy? How can we make fun, worthwhile scenarios!!! :aargh3:

And now we know that Events and Diplomacy editing is on the "Wishlist" for Play The World. THE ****ING WISHLIST??? Basically, that means, its not in PtW and we have to hope its on more than the "Wishlist" for Civ4.

I do apologise, I'm not usually one of the whiners but in this case, I feel its justified. I know Killer feels the same!


-docceh

 

[Sanaz]

After writing, can't the AI establish an embassy, and investigate a 1 population city for 15 gold? Maybe they did that, and saw no defense. Possible, although a stretch - why would they choose THAT time to investigate THAT city? Perhaps they saw the troops move to their border, and then figured they had to come from somewhere?

 

[docceh]

yeh but still, does the AI even use investigate city, etc? I've never seen and evidence that the AI uses spies and diplomats but maybe that's just me!

 

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Sanaz
Perhaps they saw the troops move to their border, and then figured they had to come from somewhere?

If the AI actually reasoned like that - then it would have to be a very good AI. Very unlikely IMO.

 

[docceh]

If you want to know what mod Killer's using, I think it is Snoopy's Terrain Modpack, which can be found on the Graphics Forum.

 

[Sanaz]

Originally posted by simwiz2
If the AI actually reasoned like that - then it would have to be a very good AI. Very unlikely IMO.

I agree completely - I'm just throwing out additional possibilities for consideration. We've seen before where the unlikely actually is happening, and before declaring proof of a cheat, all non-cheat possibilities should be investigated first - especially if it's something that a human would do in the same circumstances. Perhaps someone from Firaxis will let us know if the AI does or doesn't use Investigate City, and when?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

sumthinelse: that was before the thread you refer to - and I wanted to play a science and culture game. see where it got me.......

Snoopys mod alright, but 1.29 made some changes.... don't know which

I knew the AI would know about blocked terrain - it can also block tiles using a goto command so your units cannot be expelled to that tile.... but here it now somehting that should convence the doubters

 

[Yzman]

I've seen the AI use spies plenty. Later on in the game once in a while you will get a message saying the AI failed in planting a spy in your capital.

 

[Zouave]

Of course the AI knows where all the troops are.

I once had to raze a city to stop that Culture Flipping garbage, so some open tiles appeared. Before even I could get a settler there the AI dropped military and a settler right on those coastal tiles.

The AI had to get a freebie settler. The AI must have known exactly where it was. even IF it traded maps immediately with the civ whose city I razed it could not have gotten a settler there that quickly - unless it has transports loaded with settlers patrolling the oceans ready to swoop down!

I then went to Autosave and went back several turns putting military on every one of those open tiles. Of course the AI knew that and the transport never showed up!.

 

[Sirp]

First, lets get some terms cleared up.

the Shroud is the black area, under which you can see nothing until you explore it for the first time, or trade for maps to see what's there

the Fog of War is the dimmed area, under which you know the terrain, and can see certain events (like cities being founded and destroyed), but cannot see other events, such as troop placement etc.

It is clear that the AI does not get affected by Fog of War. However, it seems that it does get affected by the Shroud. One implication of this, is that it really does justify the amounts the AI is willing to pay for world map, since the world map really is pretty valuable for it, because it gains alot of intelligence out of it.

Also, the AI knows where all the resources are, even before it has discovered the requisite technologies. So withholding iron working from it might not be as valuable as you would otherwise think...

 

[Qitai]

Originally posted by docceh
This is, obviously, in the aid of gameplay, but when we ask for the AIs world map, we have no way of knowing if there is anything else worth getting!

There is a way, just try offering 10 gold for their world map. And if they agree, you know nothing new is discovered.

 

[wysiwygger]

"The AI must have known exactly where it was. "

when you raze a city, everyones map gets updated that had explored there