The alternate path to Iron Working

If I was Simon Cowell, well, you know.

It's a niche strategy at best. I can see it being OK at marathon (game settings you posted), but marathon is broken anyways.

* Puts on trousers with really high waistline.
 
I often use the oracle ''strategy'' in my games, but I use it to pop feudalism so I get LBs to protect my cities (nothing kills fortified LBs in the BCs) and vassalage so that all my axes get 5 xp with the barracks. This way with LBs I can send all my stack to kill enemies without really worrying about defending my cities. Also, it's usually a very long time until I research iron working... if you have copper, there is no need for iron working.

All in all I understand what you say about the oracle, I do it myself, but I think it's pretty silly to waste a free tech on something as quickly researched as IW, which doesn't really give you any advantage. Axes kill swordsman easily. Neither kills LBs easily especially in BC with to siege. Better use the oracle to pop feudalism or machinery. I mean... it's just like asking, should you use liberalism to pop steel or banking ?
 
Well let's look at the IW UUs:

Prats - essentially a cheap early mace. These suckers cost more and the tradeoff between saving :science: vs spending :hammers: is particularly bad with them. The whole reason they rock is because they can take down everything until LBs easily; one of the UUs with the longest lifespans makes a lopsided :hammers: to :science: trade particularly bad.

Gallics - they can be built by Cu and come with GI. These guys have three main strengths: they can double move across with the use of one promotion, with a good setup that can mean smacking an AI cap on turn 0. They can defend and attack well with GII, again though this is highly terrain dependant. With GIII (must win a few fights) they can get withdrawal odds. Lastly they are strong units to upgrade into (C1)CRIII/GI(II/III) rifles. What does getting there early with fewer of them mean? Well you might be able to poach a few cities if the AI doesn't have Cu that would otherwise not be viable with a larger stack. Still, this doesn't seem all that impressive outside of a map like highlands/lucky tectonics. Hills are rarely that closely packed and if you can build gallics by chopping out the oracle because they can be built with bronze then you could have chopped BHPOBA (Big huge pile of bloody axes); marched them into the AI cap, and have been done with it. While axes are slightly less efficient vs archers on hills; you can get them earlier before the AI stops building settlers/workers, they are stronger vs axes, and you can use the oracle :hammers: to get 11 bonus axes. With Brennus, I'd be far more tempted to just go for HAs anyways (worker techs) -> writing -> HBR -> archery is excellent trade bait, quick, and good for CHA leaders.

Jags - cheap, low strength, come with WI. Jags have three main uses: they make the best uberMASH in the game (CI/WIII/MIII - add morale for fun) with the sole possible exception of the Impi; this is irrelevant to when you get IW. They can double move with WII and poach cities if the AI hasn't clearcut yet. They can be hoarded with no prep and require no settler to find the resource.

Jags are best in numbers, before the AI converts its trees into axes. This does make them a decent candidate for an oracle shot but ... seriously this is MONTY. We have the sacrificial alter, a religion, and massive trade bait just waiting in CoL. Getting up alters can easily let you get 50% more units and make your recovery massively easier.

I really have a hard time seing where swapping all those :hammers: for early IW actually pans out.
 
Don't forget Monty's anarchy free revolt to slavery. (Brennus can do that as well of course).
 
Further advantages of this strategy

1) You can bulb Theology & get Theocracy (CR2 Praets, yummy). Theology is also a decent trade tech and helps reduce the cost of Paper. Getting a religion also lets you build temples & monasteries.

2) The tech path leads to Temple of Artemis (I don't recommend this unless you are August and/or have Marble).


This strategy isn't new BTW. See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=198459

If it's good enough for Unconquered Sun to use, maybe we should not discount it so quickly? ;)
 
^ Warlords were different times. More AI bonuses, less ability to defend early, etc. I don't know about wonder times but I'd guess they're different too to some degree.

Anyway I can't picture taking IW with oracle very often except possibly as denial with lots of jungle land to clear and very little opportunity for expansion prior to that.
 
IW off of Oracle is not good.

You are better to research it yourself and early, but not before you have somekind of research buff, either cottages or a gold mine or something. Dont to for it off of your starting research capacity alone. Well, if you already start with mining, you may be able to go for it directly.

Historically the firtst iron working societies appearred around 2000BC. Something to consider.
 
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