Ilspana
The Unready
About the dialect, i dont think the number of languages a civilization or nation speaks shouldn't factor into this arguement. Its really irrelevant. The point i was trying to make which you obviously missed, was that America is NOW developing independantly of England.
Is the reason you ruled out America because it doesnt fit into your idea? Now i guess i understand...
The only thing i was bothered by, was the fact that you disregarded America, claiming it wasnt a civilization by any stretch of the word. The reasons for which you provided didnt make sense, . Can you name more than five civs that are included in the game that are indigenous to their part of the world? If you go back far enough in time, most of human kind would've originated from someplace far from where their civ ended up taking root.
i think nations and civiliztion come hand in hand, more often than not. America inherited a bit of culture from England at first, that much is true. BUT, that doesnt mean we are just a branch of their civilization. We are developing independantlyl of them.
The way Firaxis is implementing this, is in the way that cities that revolt can turn into their own civilization and inherit the graphic set of its previous overlord. (I also hope they would inherit the technology level, as it would make more sense than having the new civ start fresh.)
We americans may not be culture rich, and may have borrowed alot of our culture from other sources. So have the romans. They stole the entire etruscan pantheon after they conquered them. That's right, romans have no relation to the etruscans other than they 'borrowed' quite a few ideas from them after beating their noses into the ground. Does this mean they shouldnt be included? Hell no, because their nation/civilization made a lasting and undeniable impact on the world. It doesnt matter if you dont consider their ethnicity or culture to be original enough for you. All that matters is that they took it from there, and from then on, did things their own way.
Use the romans as an example when thinking about the USA and rest assured that we are our own civilization, developing our own unique philosophies and outlooks. We are developing our own way of life, one that is being adopted all around the world. America has used ideas that were developed by other civs which already existed, and utilized them to map out our destiny. However, now that we've grown into a strong independant nation we've only just begun to develop.
Also, remember... This game is supposed to offer an alternate reality... not an accurate chronology of real life civilization. In fact, they didtn need to include any real life civs at all. THey were only doing that to give peopel something to relate to in the game. In this alternate reality, England could be an offshoot of america! If one city in the american civilization breaks off.. who konws what new civ will emerge...
The civs they've included in the game matter very little. Its the proccess of development each one undertakes, that counts. Thats the only part of this game that is needs to be emulated. The real life civs were only added so people would be able to relate to them. Everything will develop differently from an aesthetic viewpoint, but the same rules apply. New civs will emerge in later years, from an already established one, perhaps growing into its own... perhaps being annexed by its former overlords... Some civs will last through the ages, and others will be obliverated. Those are the only rules that need apply to this game. As for the different civilizations being accurately portrayed in the timeline, that matters very little. I want a game. Not a god damned history lesson.
P.S. I dont think of the european nations as bigger brothers. You're more like decrepid, great great grandparents to us. May have been impressive in your younger years, and we wouldnt be around without you, but we'll be damned if dont develop independantly of your legacy when you're not even a shadow of what you once were.
Is the reason you ruled out America because it doesnt fit into your idea? Now i guess i understand...
The only thing i was bothered by, was the fact that you disregarded America, claiming it wasnt a civilization by any stretch of the word. The reasons for which you provided didnt make sense, . Can you name more than five civs that are included in the game that are indigenous to their part of the world? If you go back far enough in time, most of human kind would've originated from someplace far from where their civ ended up taking root.
i think nations and civiliztion come hand in hand, more often than not. America inherited a bit of culture from England at first, that much is true. BUT, that doesnt mean we are just a branch of their civilization. We are developing independantlyl of them.
The way Firaxis is implementing this, is in the way that cities that revolt can turn into their own civilization and inherit the graphic set of its previous overlord. (I also hope they would inherit the technology level, as it would make more sense than having the new civ start fresh.)
We americans may not be culture rich, and may have borrowed alot of our culture from other sources. So have the romans. They stole the entire etruscan pantheon after they conquered them. That's right, romans have no relation to the etruscans other than they 'borrowed' quite a few ideas from them after beating their noses into the ground. Does this mean they shouldnt be included? Hell no, because their nation/civilization made a lasting and undeniable impact on the world. It doesnt matter if you dont consider their ethnicity or culture to be original enough for you. All that matters is that they took it from there, and from then on, did things their own way.
Use the romans as an example when thinking about the USA and rest assured that we are our own civilization, developing our own unique philosophies and outlooks. We are developing our own way of life, one that is being adopted all around the world. America has used ideas that were developed by other civs which already existed, and utilized them to map out our destiny. However, now that we've grown into a strong independant nation we've only just begun to develop.
Also, remember... This game is supposed to offer an alternate reality... not an accurate chronology of real life civilization. In fact, they didtn need to include any real life civs at all. THey were only doing that to give peopel something to relate to in the game. In this alternate reality, England could be an offshoot of america! If one city in the american civilization breaks off.. who konws what new civ will emerge...
The civs they've included in the game matter very little. Its the proccess of development each one undertakes, that counts. Thats the only part of this game that is needs to be emulated. The real life civs were only added so people would be able to relate to them. Everything will develop differently from an aesthetic viewpoint, but the same rules apply. New civs will emerge in later years, from an already established one, perhaps growing into its own... perhaps being annexed by its former overlords... Some civs will last through the ages, and others will be obliverated. Those are the only rules that need apply to this game. As for the different civilizations being accurately portrayed in the timeline, that matters very little. I want a game. Not a god damned history lesson.
P.S. I dont think of the european nations as bigger brothers. You're more like decrepid, great great grandparents to us. May have been impressive in your younger years, and we wouldnt be around without you, but we'll be damned if dont develop independantly of your legacy when you're not even a shadow of what you once were.
You are taking the only wonders that really could be made by any modern nation (except for the Statue, which was a gift of France ; a replica stands on the Seine river in Paris, so French also have it . 
). They would be called small wonder in civ3 I think (the one all civ can build).
). 
I totally agree with you. 
That's what I was saying since the beginning of this post. But I think I might I offended some people saying they are not a civ. Civ doesn't mean nation, or doesn't even mean it's something greater than if it's not a civ. The Iroquois or others tribes might just seem petty civs compared to the giant America, but they are civ and America is not really one (America is many civs at one time if you prefer, so it's better, but it's not one, cheat, and so on).
). We all want peace, but we all like war. The better we'd have to do is pass our anger on a good game like civ and avoid doing it for real.
