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The Apostolic Palace Guide

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Yxklyx, Apr 30, 2009.

  1. Yxklyx

    Yxklyx Chieftain

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    Just lost a game because I didn't read my guide!

    Was going for a cultural win so my army was weak and my tech lagging. Brennus was a vassal of Justinian. Ramses and me were in the Apostolic Palace and good friends - I was Full Member. I had one border city with the AP religion. Neither Brennus nor Justinian were Members. What happened twice was that Justinian and vassal attacked me and captured the border city with the AP religion (making Justinian a member) - then a vote comes up and the war is ended - I later get the city back via the AP as well. The third time however, Brennus was the one that captured the city - what I forgot was that since Brennus was a vassal he is considered a non-Member for proposal conditions - so the vote to end the war never came up and I was overrun!
     
  2. Finarfin

    Finarfin Chieftain

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    Is the AP obsolete as soon as any nation develops Mass Media?
     
  3. Yxklyx

    Yxklyx Chieftain

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    As it says in the first post, it obsoletes when the owner of the AP learns Mass Media.
     
  4. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    I had fun with AP in my latest game.
    Immortal, I was in defensive war with (Khan + his vassal Catherine) + Brenus and in peace with Mounty, from whom I took a few cities before. I was resident, but AP was own by Catherine.
    I propose vote to end war. I vote yes, press enter. I Mounty declared war on me. Attack and took border city and voted yes. So, next turn i am in peace With Khan Cathy and Mounty. Lol :)
    Mounty had 0 turn war in which he snatched his city back!
     
  5. Sonnybonds

    Sonnybonds Chieftain

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    [QUOTE
    2. Trade Embargo against X
    Prerequisite: One Full Member must be trading with X, and X must be a Non-Member.
    If passed, all Members now have Closed Borders with X and all trade agreements with X not made within the last 10 turns are cancelled.
    QUOTE]

    I try to understand this Apostolic Palace. Now i am playing a MP game and i am the leader of the Apostolic palace. I almost got a city back from another player but the other player did defy the vote.
    One thing i dont really understand is the trade embargo.
    why would u vote for a trade embargo with a civilization wich who u trade?
    hope someone can explain.

    and something else: if all members vote for trade embargo. can they have openborders the next turn again via diplomacy? or is the embargo for minimal 10 turns or so?
     
  6. Sonnybonds

    Sonnybonds Chieftain

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  7. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Because sometimes you will not be trading with a civ, in fact you may be at war, but an AI might be trading a key resource to the rival civ (e.g. Horse or Iron) - in which case it would be in your interests to shut down that trade ASAP.

    I presume the embargo makes the civ in question "not want to talk to you" for 10-20 turns or so, which has the same effect. Of course, in multiplayer, the embargo has no effect... trades may be cancelled but can be immediately re-established.
     
  8. Sonnybonds

    Sonnybonds Chieftain

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    well but thats the point.
    according to the rules a vote comes up if u are trading with a civ. and not if u dont or u are in war with that civ. I still dont understand why u should make a vote against trading with a civ if u are trading with that civ. But maybe that fireaxis logic

    And thx for making clear the MP diplomacy rules. I gues its more an AI thing.
     
  9. catfish99

    catfish99 Chieftain

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    Re: the assign city vote.
    Do any of you know how the program decides which city is affected? In my current game, there are five recently captured cities in play. Two are at 0% culture, one at 1%, and two more at 4-5%. They range in pop and in controlled tiles, too, but the smallest in pop and tiles is not the smallest in culture %.
    Is this a RNG function, or does the culture/pop/borders make a difference?
    Thanks.
     
  10. Yxklyx

    Yxklyx Chieftain

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    It's important to note that this proposal uses "Plot Culture" to determine the eligible city - not "City Culture". City Culture is the value that gets reduced by bombardment. Plot Culture is the value in the tile which you can see when you hover your mouse over the tile (it will say something like 51% Arabian, 49% Celtic). I've had multiple cities pop-up for reassignment at the same time and the game would have me choose which one to vote on so all eligible cities should pop up - no randomness.

    It's also possible that you need more than a simple majority (51%) of Plot Culture but if this is the case I'm not sure what the value is. If someone could confirm or deny this that would be great.
     
  11. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    Several reasons. You are trading wheat for pigs and he's getting iron and horses from someone else with the AP religion. If you vote against trade, all of a sudden he doesn't have two vital military resources. Or maybe he's dependent on trade for happiness. Or you want to kill his economy.
     
  12. cracked

    cracked Wierdo.

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    The most useful aspect of creating an embargo against a rival civ is isolating them diplomatically. The +2 attitude from leaders for open borders ceases to apply between AI's if you manage to close their borders. It also creates an attitude penalty (the affected civ adopts -2 attitude for "you stopped trading with us") if a civ is forced to stop trading due to an AP resolution (you may wish to check this). It can sometimes trigger a war (to keep from being politically isolated the affected civ may declare war to obtain a city with the AP religion in it). One trick you can pull is to put forward the motion, cancel the trade's you have with them before it enacts, then watch as the other civs are penalised while you are not (at least to such a great extent).
     
  13. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

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    Mostly good thoughts. Your last trick I didn't think of but it's a good one. However, I don't think the AI is smart enough to declare war to get a city with the AP religion. It may declare war because of decreased attitude but that's another matter.

    The AP does add a lot of diplomatic depth to the game.
     
  14. cracked

    cracked Wierdo.

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    I have seen the AI do this. It was Isabella funnily enough. I could see no other explanation for her action though I appreciate that there may be another explanation.
     
  15. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Chieftain

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    deletedccc
     
  16. mabraham

    mabraham Chieftain

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    No, this resolution enforces a 10-turn unbreakable peace treaty, not a breakable cease fire. Kakumeika just lost the gold medal in SGOTM15 because of such a treaty :)
     
  17. Yxklyx

    Yxklyx Chieftain

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    fixed.
     
  18. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Does the duration of unhappiness scale with game speed and if yes how?
     
  19. Yxklyx

    Yxklyx Chieftain

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    Unfortunately, I'm clueless when it comes to different game speeds WRT anything in this game.
     
  20. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Well, thanks for the reply anyway. It's just typical that in my games I have to defy sometimes to keep the war going.
     

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