The Apostolic Palace--Locked Religion?

[DrewBledsoe]

I really should know this, but I'm not sure, so............

If I complete the AP as Jewish, and my neighbour gets voted in as leader, then later I switch to Hindhu, do new leader elections take place?

In other words, if the AP gets built by someone of the Jewish faith, is the building itself locked in to the Jewish faith, or does it depend upon the builder's religion?

Anyone know for sure, I've never tried it........

 

[snipafist]

It's locked to your state religion when you complete it. It will never change.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

It's locked to your state religion when you complete it. It will never change.

Guessed so, Thanks.

 

[Grimus]

It depends upon the builder's religion at creation, but after that, it's locked and won't change.

I believe new leader elections would take place to if "you" were the leader and switched religions, then you'd only become a voting member. Though, if someone else is the leader, nothing happens besides you becoming a voting member.

Also, all your religious buildings pertaining to that Apostolic Palace will lose their production bonus once you switch your state religion.

 

[rarr]

If you are the owner of the AP, you will still be eligible for resident no matter what religion is your state religion. Otherwise, you must have the same religion as the palace.

 

[KMadCandy]

the great and powerful ori understands code, i do not. according to this post , if you build own the city where the AP is and later change state religions, you still count as a full member but don't get the 100% bonus votes.

the "bonus votes" mentioned there is the fact that for elections, if the AP religion is your state religion, then the votes you get count for 100% more than those of civs with a different SR (or no SR).

note that "having AP religion = your state religion" does not always mean you're a full member. in addition to the "build own the city where the AP is but change SR" case, there's also the potential "defy an AP resolution" case. so there's at least one case where you can be a voting member but still get the extra 100% votes, and one where you can be a full member but not get the extra 100%.

full vs. voting is member important for things like "let's have a holy war vs. the infidels" and such. at least for a wuss like me. likely not so much for you . thank goodness you were already used to posts from me that get into more than you originally asked! i'll PM ori in the hope that he has time to come visit the thread and make sure i'm not befuddled and misleading y'all .

 

[Seras]

this makes me think of something..

what happens if you are running Free Religion when you complete building the AP?

 

[KMadCandy]

the AP can only be built in a city that has your SR. whether that check is done when you start building it, when it is (or would be) done, or keeps getting checked and you get a "you can no longer continue building" message i have no clue.

 

[axident]

this makes me think of something..

what happens if you are running Free Religion when you complete building the AP?

FR temporarily deactivates any religion that you had at the time, but the underlying religion is still there. Still, I wonder what would happen too.... or, what would happen if you built AP without having any state religion at all. Worldbuilder, anyone?

 

[ori]

i'll PM ori in the hope that he has time to come visit the thread and make sure i'm not befuddled and misleading y'all .

all well said
You are a full member of the AP IF you have the AP religion as a state religion AND/OR control the AP (you built it or otherwise came into possession of the city it was build in ) AND have not defied a resolution recently.
You are a voting member IF you have the AP religion in at least one of your cities AND are not a full member.
Also you get a 100% bonus in votes if you have the AP religion as your state religion (regardless of whether you are a full or voting member).

this makes me think of something..

what happens if you are running Free Religion when you complete building the AP?

You cannot build the AP in a city that does not have your state religion. If you switch to no state religion or to free religion you cannot build the AP so it is removed from the build queue...

 

[KMadCandy]

If you switch to no state religion or to free religion you cannot build the AP so it is removed from the build queue...

yay i didn't mix it all up terribly

i just WB tested it before seeing you had come visit (thanks for that!). if you are building the AP in a city that has your SR and then change to FR, you get a "you can no longer continue building" message and you do NOT get any gold refund. harrumph!

i corrected my post above, the "builder" exception from the ALC post i'd linked is actually an "own the city it's in" exception it seems? part of why i PM'd you, to see if that word was used intentionally. and oops changed 50% bonus to 100% *giggle*.

 

[ori]

ou get a "you can no longer continue building" message

Yep

and you do NOT get any gold refund. harrumph!

Not true as with all wonders you get the refund once someone else builds it (of course your invested start decaying so it won't be as large as you are used to).
It is just the same as with units that require a resource if you build axes and your metal resource is disconnected you cannot continue the build but you do not lose the so once you reconnect you can resume the build, in the case of the AP you can just return to a (the ) true faith and resume the build unless of course someone beats you to it.

 

[KMadCandy]

Yep

Not true as with all wonders you get the refund once someone else builds it (of course your invested start decaying so it won't be as large as you are used to).
It is just the same as with units that require a resource if you build axes and your metal resource is disconnected you cannot continue the build but you do not lose the so once you reconnect you can resume the build, in the case of the AP you can just return to a (the ) true faith and resume the build unless of course someone beats you to it.

ah! okay. since i didn't WB anybody else theology they likely wouldn't beat me to it any time soon eh? thanks

oh "return to a (the ) true faith" ... i'm guessing the religion is locked as the one you had the turn it was built? so i can change during the build to a different SR (which i have in the city building the AP of course) and the build will continue and my new choice will be the AP faith?

 

[Inky]

As long as you have a state religion, it doesn't matter which one it is as far as building the AP is concerned. You can change on the last turn and it will be your new state religion, not the one you had for dozens of turns building it.

I've done that, sticking with the religion which was most favorable diplomatically, then making the AP the religion I felt I could control best.

 

[KMadCandy]

note that "having AP religion = your state religion" does not always mean you're a full member.

i just saw a funky case of this. technically, you can have the AP religion as your state religion but not have any cities with that religion in it, oops! in that case, you're not a member at all, you're an infidel and a heathen no matter what you claim to believe.

i'm at war with monty, who was hindu but i took his holy city and shrine (and some others). he had only 1 conf city (not the capital) and several hindu ones left, and converted to conf. he's monty, i never know why he does stuff. i've seen him adopt serfdom during a war when he's down to 2 cities and all his workers are hiding inside them

after he converted, before signing peace, i razed his conf city. felt bad, they were the right religion, but it was really in a terrible location. right now we're at peace. it has not yet been 5 turns since he changed his religion, he's in lock-out and can't switch back yet. so, his state religion is conf which is the AP religion, but he has no conf cities. so i got the vote option to "stop trading with the infidels". even tho when you look at the screen he claims to be confucian, we all know he's really an infidel. the trade embargo passed *giggle*.

F8 shows that monty's not a voting or a full member. that makes sense i suppose, it's not just what you say you believe in but you should have a city to back it up . after all, he has no population at all to be counted for votes.

 

[methane]

oh "return to a (the ) true faith" ... i'm guessing the religion is locked as the one you had the turn it was built? so i can change during the build to a different SR (which i have in the city building the AP of course) and the build will continue and my new choice will be the AP faith?

Yeah, my last game I stayed Hindu during the build to help inspire Monty not to come and kill me. Then, the turn before I finished, I switched to Xtianity (which I founded) so I'd be in control of the votes and could vote to 'end the war against me' whenever Monty turned his eye my way.

It's silly how long I got by with a handful of defenders (not even 1 per city) at the beginning of that game with Monty and Augustus as close neighbors. Hooray for the power of the AP and the Spiritual trait!

after he converted, before signing peace, i razed his conf city. felt bad, they were the right religion, but it was really in a terrible location. right now we're at peace. it has not yet been 5 turns since he changed his religion, he's in lock-out and can't switch back yet. so, his state religion is conf which is the AP religion, but he has no conf cities. so i got the vote option to "stop trading with the infidels". even tho when you look at the screen he claims to be confucian, we all know he's really an infidel. the trade embargo passed *giggle*.

F8 shows that monty's not a voting or a full member. that makes sense i suppose, it's not just what you say you believe in but you should have a city to back it up . after all, he has no population at all to be counted for votes.

He must've been so disappointed. He obviously wants to be a member of your club so badly, and you go and get him excluded from the 'cool civs'.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Actually, this works with the UN too.

If you have "require complete Kills" on, and one civ still exists with 0 population (say a Capitulation)

Then they are not a member of the UN and you can declare trade embargos on them.

 

[Thalatta]

Is it possible to build the AP under Free Religion? Say you have Shwedathingy.

 

[ori]

Is it possible to build the AP under Free Religion? Say you have Shwedathingy.

You cannot build the AP in a city that does not have your state religion. If you switch to no state religion or to free religion you cannot build the AP so it is removed from the build queue...

oh "return to a (the ) true faith" ... i'm guessing the religion is locked as the one you had the turn it was built? so i can change during the build to a different SR (which i have in the city building the AP of course) and the build will continue and my new choice will be the AP faith?

As already pointed out by others: you need to have a state religion and this religion present in the city that builds the AP - if you switch religions during build the build continues if the city has that religion and the AP religion is your state religion on completion of the wonder (switching just shortly before completion can be a valid trick...).