The attack on the 1972 olympics in Munich

Hitro

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Now almost exactly 30 years ago Palestinian terrorists entered the Olympic village in Munich and attacked the Israeli team. After an initial fight in which two athletes were killed the terrorists took nine hostages. After a standoff that lasted almost a day and a failed resuce attempt they were allowed to leave to an airfield where they were told they could leave with the hostages in a plane.
At the site the police started an attack in which all hostages and five of the terrorists as well as a German policeman were killed.

My questions:

1. How much responsibility (if any) bears the German police leadership for the loss of all the hostage's lifes?

2. What could have been done to prevent it?

3. What was the Palestinian's goal and do you think they reached it?

4. Did the attack and the fact that the games were continued ruin the Olympic thought forever?
 
1. A lot! The German police was simply not prepared for anti-terror actions. The consequence of that terror act as well as others in the early 70s led to the formation of the GSG9 as well as other elite counter-terrorist groups and the training of the ordinary police. The experience gathered through these years made the GSG9 one of the best there are.
The police had neither secured the Olympic village enough nor reacted properly. IIRC the terrorist used hand-grenades in the final showdown. This was caused by the inexperience of the policemen at the site, normally they were just traffic officers and such, as well as a missing command structure to effectively coordinate any action. Also a big part of arrogance was involved at the side of the police.
So they have to take and they did acknowledge a major part of the responsibility.

2. Better security at the Olympic village. The terrorists made a lot of mistakes which would have blown their cover if proper action would have been taken.
Use of specialized forces and negotiators, not ordinary police.
Better control at the border gates.

3. Recognition in the world, making their cause public, etc, etc.
Yes, they achieved that, together with all the other terror acts. Not the best way to go, but at least partly successful.

4. No. Neither did the influence of the Cold War in the following games. IMO the Olympic spirit can always triumph over such actions.
BUT the growing commercialization has probably done more damage than all those terror acts or political nonsense together.
:D
 
Recognition in the world, making their cause public, etc, etc.
I don't know why terrorists think this does them any good and I think I can explain with the following;

If I go up to someone in the street and punch them in the face. I will get their attention but do you think they will want to hear what I have to say?
 
Originally posted by Lucky
2. Better security at the Olympic village.
Hmm, they deliberately wanted to give an image of a peaceful, unmilitaristic and free Germany as a contrast to the Nazi image. Although that went awfully wrong due to the actions of people who disrespected the idea of the Olympic truce I think they shouldn't be blamed for the intention.

4. No. Neither did the influence of the Cold War in the following games. IMO the Olympic spirit can always triumph over such actions.
BUT the growing commercialization has probably done more damage than all those terror acts or political nonsense together.
Well wasn't the continuation of the games after that incident the clearest indication for commercialization?

Originally posted by MrPresident
I don't know why terrorists think this does them any good and I think I can explain with the following;

If I go up to someone in the street and punch them in the face. I will get their attention but do you think they will want to hear what I have to say?
Hmm, I think there's a difference between two things. They won't archieve their ultimate goals through it and they won't gain support from those who have been neutral before, rather the opposite.
But if the goal is attention, no matter whether negative or positive, I think it works, and it worked then.
The sad truth is that most people only care if something explodes and someone dies. The media only covers things then...
 
I just read an article about this in the sunday paper, and it included the viewpoint of widows of two of Jewish team killed that day.

They blame the Germans, especially as a year later, Germany released the three terrorists they captured in exchange for hostages of a Luftansa hijack, which they say proved how little the Germans cared for justice for Jews (their words, not mine).
Mossad tracked down and killed two of the three, BTW.

The Germans made a number of errors in the rescue attempt, for example, they thought there were only 8 men when there were 11, they failed to stop a camera crew from recording the rescue attempt (which the TERRORISTS saw on TV!), they opened fire prematurely (this is when the bulk of the jews were killed, in a vehicle on the airport runway), the list of mistakes would be comical if it wasn't so tragic.

I'd like to add I remember this, I was 9 years old, and I still remember seeing it. :(

Since that time, Israel has refused to send people to the olympics, for fear they won't be protected by uncarring and unsypathetic governments.
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Since that time, Israel has refused to send people to the olympics, for fear they won't be protected by uncarring and unsypathetic governments.

I thought they did send competitors, but with their own armed security. There was a slight fuss before the Sydney 2000 Games about the Israeli team security bringing in weapons, but it was smoothed over. I don't think that they have boycotted the Games.
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
They blame the Germans, especially as a year later, Germany released the three terrorists they captured in exchange for hostages of a Luftansa hijack, which they say proved how little the Germans cared for justice for Jews (their words, not mine).
Mossad tracked down and killed two of the three, BTW.
I didn't include this into the questions because it wasn't a part of the attack itself, but in fact it is one of the most interesting things about it.
I have read several reports as well as seen some on TV about it, and it seems that alot of people (including Israeli intelligence officers) think that the hijacking was a conspiracy. They were confused how short it took until the German government released the terrorists in exchange, so some claim it was made up. They argue in favour of that theory by saying that the plane had only very few passengers and was far from filled. More striking though is the fact (?) that all passengers were male, according to them there was no single woman or child on board, which is indeed strange (if it's true).
Now assuming that was true it would of course lead to the question of the intention behind it. Why should the government do so? I think the idea of a latent anti-semitism doesn't make very much sense if you know a bit about the people in charge at that time. Another theory, in which the German government conspirated with the Mossad so that they could kill the terrorists after their release is also not very likely to be true in my opinion, after all one of them escaped.
That leaves the idea I personally think makes the most sense (always assuming it was made up). The German government wanted to get rid of the thread of Arab terrorism. The terrorists in German prisons would have made the country a permanant target of the internationally operating groups.
History showed that it didn't help them, but at the time I can imagine that it was a logical thought, a very cowardly thought of course...
The Germans made a number of errors in the rescue attempt, for example, they thought there were only 8 men when there were 11, they failed to stop a camera crew from recording the rescue attempt (which the TERRORISTS saw on TV!), they opened fire prematurely (this is when the bulk of the jews were killed, in a vehicle on the airport runway), the list of mistakes would be comical if it wasn't so tragic.
Indeed. There have been many terrible mistakes. For the first rescue attempt (in the Olympic village) they put police officers in training suits to infiltrate the building over the roof. But across the street was the East German building and from there TV crews happily broadcasted the operation into the terrorists rooms...
Short before the second attempt (the one at the airfield that went so terribly wrong) they had positioned a fake crew in the plane the terrorists were told to use. This crew, made up of policemen, should have tried to overpower those terrorists who would go in to check it out, while on the outside the others would be attacked. But that crew left the plane, according to a TV report because they thought "the situation would become too dangerous" :rolleyes:
The result was that the terrorists checked out the plane and when the shooting began they were still able to participate in the fight.
I'd like to add I remember this, I was 9 years old, and I still remember seeing it. :(
It was one of the first days where the world witnessed live how such tragic events took place. That's another reason why I think it was very significant. I'm not sure if this is to the better, actually when you think about the first rescue attempt it certainly wasn't.
Since that time, Israel has refused to send people to the olympics, for fear they won't be protected by uncarring and unsypathetic governments.
Here I agree with Darkshade, I'm pretty sure to have seen Israelis compete.
 
The 1972 attacks were part of the same group (Black September, ANO) that Abu Nidal lead.
 
Originally posted by Hitro
1. How much responsibility (if any) bears the German police leadership for the loss of all the hostage's lifes?

As much as they can be. They didn't protect the team well enough, they weren't ready, their plans failed, they lost all hostages in addition to one of their cops.

Originally posted by Hitro

2. What could have been done to prevent it?

Better security, pre-thought about the possibility of terror attacks or hijacking.

Originally posted by Hitro

3. What was the Palestinian's goal and do you think they reached it?

I doubt they knew it. Terrorists are motivated by feelings rather than by logic. Today the situation is still the same - hamas wants to destroy Israel, although they can triple the number of attacks and Israeli population will still grow. They don't listen to logic because it can stop them, and therefore they act illogicaly out of hate.

Originally posted by Hitro

4. Did the attack and the fact that the games were continued ruin the Olympic thought forever?

They didn't ruined it but it certainly damaged it. Ideal humanity isn't to entertain while your friends are killed a few hundreds of meters away.
 
It is ironic that the two most successful terrorist attacks in history should have significant anniversaries so close together. Successful in the sense that they generated huge amounts of panic and media coverage. The two events of course are the Olympic hostage situation and the Tade Center bombings: one 30 years ago today and one year ago next week.

It is rumored, and I have no hard evidence of this, that Massoud systematically, and unofficially as in on leave and after retirement, hunted down the entire cadre and killed them. This would fit into the Isreali approach to terrorism.

About German responsibility. That is how we learn. I heard once that the difference between Isreal and USA is that in Isreal they check your bags before you go into a store (to see if there are exposives) whereas in the USA they check bags coming out (to see if you have stolen anthing). The Germans certainly had security well in the background, but no one expected the attack. The Trade Center bombings showed that even fair and fairly complex security is no match for careful planning. provided there is no alert.

Some said that the object of terrorism is to terrorize, but I think it works more effectively to stiffen resolve. in the long run of history there have been many uses of terror. These ttacks are not amoung the more successful.

J
 
sep 11th was a mistake of the CIA and FBI as they didn't stop the terrorists before the attacks, but after the attacks occured the US authorities worked pretty well. In the 1972 attacks German forces not only failed to protect the athlets by preventing the attacks, they also completely failed to save them after the attack has started. All hostages were killed, along with a police man, and it was mostly a result of poor planning. They tried to take 8 terrorists at once using 5 snipers that didn't have nightvision or even good scopes...
 
After watching a documentary on it, all I can say is:



:(

It seems that most of the blame is on the Germans trying desperately to avoid ANYTHING militaristic, which bit them in the a$$ in the long run.
 
And news - the German goverment decided that as a "humanitarian gesture" they'll divide among the 11 families the sum of 3 million euros, about 10% of the sum they demanded. The Germans said it was a "humanitarian gesture" and not an admittion in failure, and refused to apologize, despite the fact the athlets were killed during their plan. In other words - they say they aren't responsible the athlets' death at all... :rolleyes:
 
G-Man I have to disagree. The whole point of this excersize is that no security system is foolproof. Or perhaps that any system can be used against itself. You might as well say that Timothy McVey should have been spotted. He was buying explosives. Security on the 9/11 operation was fairly tight. Maybe 6 people in the US knew prior to that morning.

J
 
I wouldn't blame them if they were prepared and if they were doing things more or less right. By agreeing to host the olympics the Germans took upon themselves the responsibility to take care of the athlets'. They not only weren't successful, they were far from trying to do so as well.
 
Originally posted by G-Man
I wouldn't blame them if they were prepared and if they were doing things more or less right. By agreeing to host the olympics the Germans took upon themselves the responsibility to take care of the athlets'. They not only weren't successful, they were far from trying to do so as well.

In that period security was not an important issue in Europe.
The action during the Olympics was one of the first terror attacks.
The same can be said about the police actions by the Germans. They had no experience.

With hindsight we can say that they made a great number of mistakes and that they are to blame. But with the knowledge they had at that moment, I wonder if we can do that.

I also think that the Germans aren't responsible for the death of the athletes. IMO that are the Palestinians who started keeping the hostages.

EDIT : grammatical error : aren't instead of are in last paragraph. IMO it doesn't make a difference for the reply of G-man. He already interpreted my post that way.
 
Originally posted by AVN
In that period security was not an important issue in Europe.
The action during the Olympics was one of the first terror attacks.
The same can be said about the police actions by the Germans. They had no experience.

>>> If they weren't prepared it was their fault. A good police needs to prepare for such things. If they failed to do it, for any reason, it's their fault.

With hindsight we can say that they made a great number of mistakes and that they are to blame. But with the knowledge they had at that moment, I wonder if we can do that.

>>> Knowledge they should've had. That's why I don't blame the cops on the scene but the higher ranks that should've given them the required trainings.

I also think that the Germans are responsible for the death of the athletes. IMO that are the Palestinians who started keeping the hostages.

>>> The Palestinians are ofcource to blame for the attack, the Germans are blamed for not stopping it.
 
G-Man.

I don't think you understand my point.
With the knowledge of today we can say that the German police/authorities made a lot of errors. If today during an important sporting event such errors would be made, we should have reason to blame the organisation for bad security measures and for a bad way of solving them.

But 30 years ago the world was different. Here in Western Europe we had almost, or not at all, experience with security issues or terrorism. Our world was much more peaceful.

For that reason I don't think we can blame the Germans too much.
They have made errors, maybe even errors which are stupid in our opinion, but we do that with hindsight and our experiences of today which are much different. :)
 
I understand why the Germans failed to stop the terrorists, but this makes their mistakes understandable, not justifiable. IT wasn't completely unpredictable - there were already terror attacks on Israelis for decades, including in other countries. Germany should've used anti terror force, or atleast a force specializing in hostages situations. They force they used was highly unproffesional in the way they handled the situation, not to mention the fact that the forces that got there were too few and unequiped for the task.
I'm not saying the German goverment is the only one to blame for the attack's success, but it has failed and I expect them to admit their failure, apologize and support the families, not to act as if they were perfect and have done anything they were expected...
 
As sad as it is, I don't think they are to blame for the preparations, these were that way for political reasons.
Before that attack, nobody ever violated the Olympic peace, at least not directly.
But the more important thing is the public appearence. What do you think would have been said if armed German Policemen would constantly have been around the Israelis there, 27 years after the Holocaust? The German government still hadn't forgotten the mass protests in Israel a few years earlier, when Germany established an embassy there.
It's tragic that their (in the spirit) good intentions were punished in this way.
They are still to blame for the operation when it happened, of course.
 
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