The barb demon spawning mechanism is all messed up.

[Monkeyfinger]

If I'm reading the Fall Further thread on them right, the AC determines how many demons spawn per turn, while the world's tech level determines what the actual demons are, and the free XP they get makes them a lot stronger than equivalent tech units.

Tying type to tech level insures the individual demons will always be a threat, even if by all rights they shouldn't be anymore. As empires get more advanced, armageddon should have to creep closer and closer for these demons to keep up - they shouldn't be able to do it as a freebie. There's no justification for a world that knows mithril working to feel threatened by demons spawned by an AC that's less than a third full.

Tying their spawn numbers to the AC doesn't really help reign them in because low AC = restricted spread of hell = those that do spawn all get concentrated in 1 area and focus on the same target or few targets. This basically means that at low/mid AC, whoever has hyborem spawn next to them deals with as many demons as they'd have to if AC were 100 and hell were everywhere, while everyone else gets to completely ignore the demons. This, combined with the fact that the demons will be the same strength no matter what the AC and hell spread is like, arguably makes the low AC situation worse. Now the demon horde's as much of a threat as straight up armageddon to civ or two, but no one else, and their neighbors get to coast unchecked.

A better system would be if demon type were tied to the AC and spawn numbers were tied to % of the world covered in hell. This way the threat level of the demons to any civ that's facing them is... actually tied to the progress of the AC, and can actually be pretty much neutralized if steps are taken to lower it or stop it from getting out of hand. Meanwhile the demons don't get spread out and weakened by the spreading of hell like they do now.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm... Not a bad point. Something to consider putting in, at the least.... Mind if I post this in the FF Team forum as well? They might want to consider it.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Go ahead, though last I checked Xeinwolf is pondering alternate means to nerf the demons (stuff like having them slowly bleed health outside of hell) so you might be preaching to deaf ears.

 

[Sarisin]

MF, I was wondering what you saw in your game to prompt your post.

I have played two games so far where I had the misfortune of being next to the lands that get hell terrain spread quickly and demons spawn. This all started when the AC was 30 (after Blight) as it never got above 32. My tech level was high as I was building Tier IV units, but the remaining 4 AI civs' was low.

I honestly didn't have a problem except for the Manticores that came in number and were quite nasty and strong. I did have one unit with a capture beast promotion, though, and managed to capture a few.

What did you see in your game?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Around iron working the big hitters were fire elementals and stygians. When mithril started spreading around manticores and iras started to show up, and lesser demons like imps and drowns all but disappeared, meaning almost everything was one of the big boys. The AC was around 45 during the early iron age, then slid down to around 30 as I inquisitioned AV, killed prophecy mark units, and watched the Hippus stamp all over Hyborem.

If it's currently based on the WORLD'S tech level, then if there's a tech leader he probably won't have much trouble, since he's facing demons that scale to a mostly backwards world. It's tech parity that causes things to get way out of hand.