The best civ

[mastertyguy]

This question is kind of tricky i a way. There are civ traits which are important, and UUs. The best traits are for Egypt , and UU is immortal. But who can have civ traits AND UU? Do you not care about UU or traits? Are of those who take random? Or it epends of the game you want to do? This is what we ALL want to. I think I'll go for China (militaristic, industrious, UU rider 4,3,3) when I feel warmongerous. Greece for OCC because of hoplites. France for archipelago maps. But YOU, who do you take a the best.
btw I don't have C3C, so I don't know if anything is change about those civ from vanilla. Correct me if I'm wrong with greece commercial and scientific amd France commercial and industrious.

 

[Tomoyo]

No one is the best. Greece is not the best for OCCs because Commercial is wasted. Hoplites don't really help, except on low level OCCs because if you're attacked, you're screwed anyway.

France has the most powerful traits in vanilla, IMO.

 

[mastertyguy]

I know commercial is wasted in OCC, but it gives alphabet (to have writing - literacy - GL)
And twice got killed early in my first occs, so now like holites and, anyway, I always get attacked in early ancient age by any agressive civ that wants wonders. And in MTT1 practice (I take the same civ, opponents an settings as in the real and official game) I got to my last hoplite 2 hp against Japs (another info about it, and map isn't chosen yet) and a three swords remaining. I won (?). I was kinna lucky. And hoplites are also cheap, no iron pikes. I think you get also extra commerce with commercial civ, but not sure how it works.
About France, yes it as good traits, but, for my style of play, religious is a better trait than commercial (see the best optionnal tech were I'm alone wanting republic EDIT: sorry, democracy, everyone wants rep, not me). but I like in archipelago to decrease corruption. And China has the second best UU behind immortals and ones of the best civ traits, at least for war. Egypt is the best civ traits, Persia best UU. Nothing to say here. Religious also give cheap culture. And Babs is best for 100K.

 

[tR1cKy]

Want to know what is the TRULY, ABSOLUTELY, UNDOUBTFULLY BEST CIV?!?
Follow the link in my sig.
WARNING: different opinions are not allowed.

 

[Tomoyo]

Want to know what is the TRULY, ABSOLUTELY, UNDOUBTFULLY BEST CIV?!?
Follow the link in my sig.
WARNING: different opinions are not allowed.

Ooh! I know! The best civ is whatever civ you're playing!

 

[tR1cKy]

Ooh! I know! The best civ is whatever civ you're playing!

Of course! I'm glad you finally saw the light, o fellow warmonger! Now bow down in front of the sheer awesomeness of the mighty Rome and accept the blessing of its prophet!

EDIT: ok, Rome is by far the best civ ever, but France and Persia are not that bad.

RE-EDIT: Egypt and Greece SUX.

RE-RE-EDIT: forgive the spammy reply, i couldn't resist...

 

[Alexfrog]

For C3C, I find the best traits to be Agricultural, Scientific, and on Arichpelago maps, Seafaring. Religious is good too, industrious is ok, imo (I tend to create an early worker pump).
I fin Commercial, Militaristic and Expansionist to be poor picks, especially commercial which I see as a waste. Expansionist can be goo on Pangea maps, as it can allow you to find the AIs before they find each other, and get tech in goody huts, such that you can be tech broker and keep up with the AI. Seafaring in archipelago is good for the same reason. Both are decent in continents, but 2nd tier.

My choices for best civ are:

Sumerians (two great raits + UU is very helpful defensively: half price spearmen at game start. Great as a builder civ).

Celts (Agricultural and Religious is very good, and the 3/2/2 swordsmen is a great UU).

Dutch (Agricultural + Seafaring is excellent for Archipelago, UU is basically a cheaper musketman that you get earlier, so also good for defense).

Byzantines (Scientific + Seafaring is great for Archipelago, UU is also good on archipelago).

Iriquois (For Pangea, expansionist is good, and their UU is excellent, a 3/1/2 horseman, similar to the Celtic UU).

Persians (Excellent offensive UU, and Scientific + Industrious is good).


I tend to play on Deity level now, some Demigod.

My priorities in picking a civ are:

1) Ability to find AIs fast, so as to be able to broker tech, and not to fall an Age behind in tech. This means Seafaring (archipelago map), Expansionist (Pangea map), or at least starting with Alphabet to make Curraghs. If a civ doesnt have this ability, I'll have to find a way to cope, generally by attacking a lot in ancient and getting techs for peace, or trading for Alphabet ASAP and getting curraghs looking for far off civs.

2) Strong growth potential early (Agricultural gives the biggest boost to this, with food bonus and immediate granary tech to set u pa settler pump fast). Thsi is to keep up with or near the AIs in growth

3) Good UU. My UU should give some significant offensive or defensive strength, either in the ancient age, or early middle age.

Finally, the civ should either be a strong builder civ (Scientific and Religious help this, especially scientific for cheaper libraries and universities, and more SGLs) or strong attacking civ (great offensive UU like Gallic Swordsmen or Mounted Warrior).


So theres about a half dozen civs I think are top tier, and which is best depends on map type, and wether I want to focus more on building or attacking.

If I could pick any combination of things, for all map settings, I would probably want Agricultural and Scientific with a very strong attacking UU such as Immortal, Gallic Swardsmen or Mounted Warrior. But that doesnt exist.

 

[Mad2rix]

What about the Ottomans since they have similar traits as Persians?

 

[mastertyguy]

The Persians haven't the best civ traits, but the best UU. Think about it Mad2rix.

 

[Alexfrog]

The Persians haven't the best civ traits, but the best UU. Think about it Mad2rix.

Yeah, with Persians, you are suffering an ok civ trait to get a great UU. As opposed to say, the Dutch in a Archipelago, where you suffer an ok UU to get great traits.

 

[Alexfrog]

Also, Iriquois traits changed in C3C. They do get Agricultural though, so thats cool, but commerical is bad.

I havent played them in C3C yet, I really liked them in basic Civ 3.

 

[predesad]

Also, Iriquois traits changed in C3C. They do get Agricultural though, so thats cool, but commerical is bad.

I havent played them in C3C yet, I really liked them in basic Civ 3.

In C3C the Iroquois are one of the best civs, period, the commercial trait is also one of the best traits for multiple reasons, its benefits just go unnoticed by some players.

 

[Tomoyo]

Commercial is awesome!!! They start with Alphabet, and get a 25% increase in OCN, which translates to 25% less corruption as long as you reach that OCN.

 

[tR1cKy]

Commercial is awesome, but only if paired with militaristic, otherwise it's just moderately awesome.

 

[Pentium]

@tR1cKy: Do you think there's a forum member not knowing your favourite civ?
Mine is definately Persia. By far best UU, and the traits are not so bad too.

 

[gunkulator]

As to traits:

Agr is clearly the best in C3C.

Seafaring is map dependant. Awesome on archipelago, good on continents, meh on pangaea. Still helpful if only for the commerce bonus in sea cities.

The effects of commercial are not as immediate as seafaring or agricultural. But over many turns, the extra commerce really adds up.

Industrious is nice but nerfed in C3C.

Scientific is OK. I like cheap libraries but after that it's a long wait to universities. You get a freebie once when you reach the middle ages but you should be able to trade around anyway. All of the above traits help each and every turn, all throughout the game. Not so scientific.

Religious is like scientific but even less useful, IMHO. I tend to switch gov'ts only once in the AA and then no more. It's typically only 5 turns then vs. 2 with Rel. Not a huge difference. Cheap temples are OK but I tend to use the lux slider for happiness problems. I almost never bother with cathedrals.

Militaristic is not so hot. It makes already cheap buildings cheaper. Starting with archers is not helpful on upper levels since the AI already starts with a horde of units. Sure I like armies but I don't think you get that many more with Mil.

Expansionist is a real hit or miss. You're basically gambling on the outcome of goody huts. The scout is useless on archipelago. Meh on continents. OK on pangaea. After the start of the game. exp doesn't help you one bit.

As far as UUs are concerned, no other unit is a better bargain than the mounted warrior. Attacks at 3, moves 2, has retreat, only costs 30. GA timing is obviously not ideal, but you should be able to easily and swiftly grab a good chunk of your continent with mws.

Great UU + great traits + OK GA = Iroquois.

 

[Alexfrog]

In C3C the Iroquois are one of the best civs, period, the commercial trait is also one of the best traits for multiple reasons, its benefits just go unnoticed by some players.

I'll believe the Iriquois are great. Agricultural + awesome UU isbound to be great.

Is commercial really that good? half price marketplaces/etc is okay, but far worse than scientific imo. I tend to be working on 70%+ science and usually 0% into gold. So marketplaces are just for luxuries. I dont build them until later usually.

The corruption reduction is a reduction in corruption for mroe far away cities, and only one aspect of corruption. It seems to give a very minimal benefit, to me.

I tend to think:

Tier 1: Agricultural, Seafaring (if Archipelago), Scientific
Tier 2: Religious, Seafaring (if Continents), Expansionist (if Pangea), Industrious.
Tier 3: Militaristic, Commericial, Seafaring (if Pangea), Expansionist (non-pangea).

 

[Tomoyo]

Commercial, when you hit the OCN, gives you 25% more production and gold, assuming you have improved your entire empire. That's 25% more.

Commercial doesn't need half-priced markets and banks. It's great like it is. Any more would be overpowered.

 

[mastertyguy]

Commercial is awesome, but only if paired with militaristic, otherwise it's just moderately awesome.

ROME IS WEAK IN CIV3, but in real life, it was one of the greatest civ of all. Legions were not a defensive formation, why give them +1 D?? And commercial is awesome, but I prefer industrious and religious. Commercial is my third choice. Militaristic is for 20K cultural victory . Scientific and religious (babs) is for cultural. Commercial is for archipelago, lots of different islands. Expansionist is good for HUGE maps with LOTS of lands on PANGEA, (why England is weak, two opposite traits).
btw, in every single game I play, India is the strongest civ (when there is India). Why?

 

[Tomoyo]

Because India is patient and has a low aggression level, plus they have Commercial, which combats an AI weakness, far cities, and Religious makes them be able to survive those Commie to Demo to Commie to Fascie to Demo to Commie to Demo to Fascie to Monarchy to Demo to Fascie things that they do.