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The Best Starting Tech Combination? (Poll)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by thelibra, Oct 15, 2007.

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Which Starting Tech Combo is Best?

  1. Fishing + Agriculture

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  2. Fishing + Hunting

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  3. Fishing + Wheel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Mining + Fishing

    9 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Mining + Agriculture

    64 vote(s)
    29.0%
  6. Mining + Hunting

    24 vote(s)
    10.9%
  7. Mining + Wheel

    20 vote(s)
    9.0%
  8. Mining + Mysticism

    35 vote(s)
    15.8%
  9. Mysticism + Agriculture

    6 vote(s)
    2.7%
  10. Mysticism + Fishing

    13 vote(s)
    5.9%
  11. Mysticism + Wheel

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  12. Mysticism + Hunting

    11 vote(s)
    5.0%
  13. Hunting + Agriculture

    8 vote(s)
    3.6%
  14. Hunting + Wheel

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  15. Agriculture + Wheel

    14 vote(s)
    6.3%
  16. You forgot one, the best one is _(specify)_

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  1. MrFrodo

    MrFrodo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    It is all about your start, and what your initial plan is.

    Mining has to be one of them because getting BW early to chop and/or whip is so critical. Then your best bet is probably Agriculture because you are nost likely going to be able to help your growth with an early farm. But if you are on the Coast next to clams/fish/crabs you would rather have Fishing.

    If you plan to discover early religions, perhaps with an eye to a cultural victory, or early shrine, you would love to have Mysticism and try for Hindu/Buddism. Mostly I find I can found later religions and count on others to spread early ones enough where founding an early religion is not that big a deal, at least as far as getting the prerequisite 3 religions in your civ for an attempt at a cultural win.

    You can also argue Hunting for the early Scout. This varies a lot on your luck with huts and the surroundings. I do appreciate it a lot when I play Darius, but I like to start with a worker and sometimes he can get left with nothing useful to do to start the game.
     
  2. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

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    Mining + Wheel. I think only the Malinese Empire has this combo.
     
  3. Merkinball

    Merkinball Deity

    Joined:
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    Western New York
    I would definitely say Mysticism for myself, as I don't play an uber difficult level yet. Getting one one of the first religions can be key, as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism are always the most predominant widespread religions. Thus, with the religious wonder, bring in the most wealth. Getting later religions seem like caviat's.

    It's hard to pick what is better with agriculture and mining. Mining does open an immediate door for bronzeworking, but agriculture opens an immediate door to animal husbandary. Personally, I want two food resources being worked before I switch to bronze working for optimal slaving. So I picked agriculture. But of course, it's all highly situational. Sometimes fishing is better than both if you have no food, no hills, and lots of seafood in your fat cross.
     
  4. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Now that I think of it, you're probably right. One of the reasons I don't normally try to found an early religion is because it means researching an otherwise worthless tech before a more important one.

    Considering that, I now think Mining + Mysticism may be the most well-rounded combo, as you can still get early religion but still have a worker tech that's also the prerequisite to Bronze Working.

    Hunting + Fishing is still my favorite though. Always has worked for me, always will.
     
  5. AlessioCerci

    AlessioCerci Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    416
    Im surprised not many have voted for the wheel and agriculture. Costing 60 beakers each they are the 2 most expensive starting techs and you will have to reasearch them soon anyway. Mining is one step away from bronzeworking which is great so thats another good starting tech.
    Hunting and fishing are both cheaper than all the rest at 40 beakers and are both not great starting techs. The scout is nice but it means you cant steal someone's worker from the start. Fishing is obviously map dependant.
    And mysticism is a very bad tech, it doesnt enable your worker to do anything and its only value early on is the monument. You wont need it as early as the worker techs so not a good one to start with.
    To sum up:
    1st tier:
    Mining, The Wheel, Agriculture (fishing if there's some seafood)
    2nd tier:
    The others
     
  6. AlessioCerci

    AlessioCerci Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    416
    Actually form a strictly tech standpoint the wheel and agriculture is the best combo as they cost the most beakers.

    Also Isabella's UU and UB are not that bad, certainly not the worst in the game.
     
  7. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,725
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    Riverdale, MD
    Hunting/Wheel for me. Love being able to explore (never camp my first warrior at home), can get mining, AH, or agriculture prior to popping my first worker, and *hate* being unable to hook up resources that I've improved. Drives me crazy for some reason.
     
  8. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
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    Location:
    STL
    My vote (Agrilculture + Mining) is winning! I think it is the most useful starting techs for sure because they guarantee your worker will have things to improve right away. That's my major pet peeve about Justinian and Saladin, who start with Mysticism + the Wheel. If you go for a religion right away and build a worker to start, your worker will have nothing to do but build roads for a while!
     
  9. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    The conquistador is pretty decent, however, the citadel is downright bull.. .. .. .. It is nullified by gunpowder which really isn't all that far off in the tech tree (if you're playing a militant game) and it has a prerequisite (walls). So actually, the number of hammers required for this UB is (walls + citadel). Sure it gives +4 exp for siege, but if you are really military minded, you'll already have a city pumping out Level 4 units and another +4 exp isn't going to do much considering Isabella isn't charismatic.

    Sorry for the rant, but I relished the idea of a building that gives +4exp to siege, and when i actually used it, I found it to be the biggest let down.
     
  10. Lightwave

    Lightwave Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Hmmm, I had not thought of that. It would save at least 18 turns of building a worker from the start though you have to transport it back home without it getting killed (I always play Raging Barbs).

    Do you really start a war that early just to get a worker, or are you trying a "warrior rush" of some sort usually?
     
  11. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Riverdale, MD
    Hrm...only Mongolia starts with my preferred traits...go figure, as I'm not huge fan of playing as them. Although, it's been awhile, and I love Creative, so maybe I'll give Kublai a shot next time I start a game.
     
  12. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

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    Jun 29, 2006
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    I look at "best" starting tech based on what they allow me to do at the start of the game. Hunting and Fishing may be the cheapest techs, but Hunting starts you off with a scout and Fishing lets you start a workboat at turn 1. If I need to build farms, I can always research Agriculture while I'm building the worker, but if I want to build a work boat but don't start with Fishing, it's TS for me.
     
  13. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Yeah, I always build a worker first, no matter my starting tech. You can research any one first-level tech before that worker pops, and you can choose that tech based on terrain and resources in the BFC (which always pops before the worker). Wheel is useful no matter what the resources are in the area. So, I find Wheel/Hunting most versatile. I guess I'd say Hunting/Mining would be second most versatile, and then Hunting/Fishing, but only if you're on a coast. The only time I might wish for something different is if all the resources require plantations, and otherwise it's all trees and hills and a river.

    I just vastly prefer starting with a scout. I'd rather reveal oodles of map space than start a war, steal a worker, escort the worker back, etc.
     
  14. Seapeople

    Seapeople Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
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    Location:
    Toronto
    I think i was first to go to mystism/wheel. I play a pretty simple game and I think this leaves my options open. I can either go for an early religion and happines or go for resources and settlers and connect right away with roads.
     
  15. Elandal

    Elandal King

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    Oct 24, 2006
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    870
    Location:
    Finland
    Many people have noted Hunting as one of their preferred starting techs, often with further clarification that the usefulness lies in scout (and ability to build another) that can pop another tech and/or gold worth way more than any starting tech.

    For me, scout is useless for that purpose. I play with good huts turned off... Otherwise I could reroll game any time I get too good results from huts (I recently played a few starts with huts on. MC is a nice tech to pop from hut, sure) as the game then is one difficulty level too easy for me, or I could reroll game when I lose my scout to an animal without popping anything at all (which is a cruel fate and pushes exploration way back, let alone popping huts).
    I find huts way too random element that can push the game effective difficulty around too much. Better thus play without them.
     
  16. thelibra

    thelibra Future World Dictator

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    Oi, mate, there's a far, far better reason for a scout than huts. Scouts can cover twice as much visible land as a warrior can, and can act as an escort for your first settler.

    If you build settler first, while researching bronze, and use the BW turns for exploring with your scout, you stand a far better chance of uncovering a source of copper and/or some other extremely strategic resource placement, AND get back to your settler in time to escort them to the spot before the barbs appear. And since they can both move at the same rate, they can reach the destination more quickly, which means less wasted turns while your warrior plods along, holding up your settler.
     
  17. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    @Elandal: The AI has scout units, and can pop huts as well. On noble (no bonuses / penalties for AI) the AI can pop techs, gold, anything the player can. So I feel huts are even. Sometimes, I never pop techs, and if the AI has, my difficulty level went UP relative to the AI! So I can't agree with you.
     
  18. Lightwave

    Lightwave Warlord

    Joined:
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    I don't agree. The benefit of huts decreases with difficulty level though I do not know the "function." I play on Monarch, and I rarely get more than 1 tech, if that, even with scouts. The net effect tends to be some starting gold and an extra scout or warrior or a nice chance of an extra tech. It's is not that overpowering for the start and is no more random than a good starting position that includes gold or gems that allows faster tech research near the beginning.

    Hunting also has a secondary benefit of opening up Archery immediately if desired (such as on huge maps with Raging Barbs) and the alternate route to Animal Husbandry. I think it is a solid choice for a starting tech.
     
  19. jimbob27

    jimbob27 Emperor

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    Mining and agriculture, or Mining and the wheel.

    I voted for mining and wheel, because it's the best combo for an axe-rush, which I always try and do.
     
  20. Lightwave

    Lightwave Warlord

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    That's a good point. I had always discounted the use of a Scout as an escort, but you are exactly right. In the early stages there are only animal barbs, and with the exception of bears, scouts can be a decent escort with a little planning. Thanks.

    As far as wasted turns from the warrior, I usually have the warrior in an advanced position if not already positioned at the city site, so there is really no wasted time, just a little pre-planning of where to go and where to position units. The difference may be that I almost never send my first settler off a long distance from the starting city.

    Edit: I just re-read and realized that you said a Settler first which I never do.
     

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