The Biggest and Best Europe WWII map Ever.
- Thread starter Phoenix
- Start date
Julius Caesar I
Chieftain
hmmm, now I'm a little confused...
This is playable for C3C? I wont have to put the PTW Cd in the disk drive, I can put the conquests Cd in?
And what folders do I put everything in?
This is playable for C3C? I wont have to put the PTW Cd in the disk drive, I can put the conquests Cd in?
And what folders do I put everything in?
Julius Caesar I
Chieftain
Odd, but yes I have the PTW Cd, and I placed the files in the Scenarios folder... I should be fine then?
warmwaffles
Programmer
Overlag said:it should be going into the PTW scenarios directory thats why
Hey I just pulled all of the units to a mod file...tweaked the scenario a bit and vala.....I got it running.
I had to do this because my units are scattered every where.
wohmongarinf00l
Immortal
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
- Messages
- 452
well, i abandoned the russian game and tweaked the game as i suggested:
all wonders that can were made small wonders to make sure they dont fall to wrong hands, took out conquest and added some vp locations, and put in a settler factory small wonder for late game...and then started the game as the british. i see that hardly anyone has played as the british.
i used the first few turns to fine tune the infrastructure so i can research and buy units at will. then i made some alliances (including the soviet union against germany) to make sure the small countries dont harass me..and then i started massing troops at dover.
here are the things i noticed:
-the germans produce Waffen SS exclusively and dont ever bother to produce bombers, fighters, panzers, panthers, submarines, surface ships,etc...nothing. once i destroyed their initial u-boat and battleship fleet i roamed the seas freely...sometimes with unescorted transports. at the height of their power they had 112 SS units mostly in the eastern front since they mostly ignored the french who never got to a start with any kind of counter-attack. this might be due to the 2/unit support for democracies. i cant really see what the difference in govt was at that point between britain and france...i think france should get the benefits of an imperialist govt (imperialism is super-democracy in this scenario).
-after the initial thrust into russia, the german offensive ground to a halt...they didnt even manage to take kiev or minsk. and mind u, i watched this whole thing without lifting a finger to relieve the russians except bombing all roads leading east from berlin with the exception of the road thru munich - they set up a tight air defense system there and all my lancasters were getting shot down.
-the germans tried to land in edinburgh a couple times but once again the lancasters sank them all in the north sea before they could reach land.
as the turns wore on, the russians turned them back and began to actually drive them out. in a few turns they were closing in on danzig and that got me really worried. with all the gold the soviets make, they have nothing to do but research and diplomacy (i left alliances ON for germany, russia and britain) and so they had made this multinational coalition in the east that was harassing the germans so much they were not paying attention to the advancing russians. once they made peace with the little nations they managed to drive the russians back a little but they couldnt really compete with the size and production capacity of the russians and things stalemated again.
this is the time when i officially entered the war on the continent by landing abt 70 shermans, 16 marines and 16 pershings in calais after solving the irish question. i settled the dutch question next and then began taking german cities at leisure. the coastal ones were especially easy since a battleship can bombard a city 9 times and with that lethal land bombardment, abt 4 battleships can empty the defenders off a coastal city.
-i have mopped all the german cities in germany proper...i'm not contesting german cities deep in southeast europe taken from greece and yugoslavia. i've got two problems now: the italians and the russians. i've sent a fleet from alexandria to invade the italians from the south and i'm probably going to open hostilities against the russians with the units facing them in germany
since they are pretending like the only way to italy is thru my territory.
i have 3 armies now so it shouldnt really be that hard. an army of 8 shermans is simply unbeatable.
-the russians completed their "war of survival" two turns ago...their output of t-34's is astounding. in nov 1943 they had 37 t-34's, and in mar 1944 they have 62 t-34's...and we are not counting the ones lost to the germans.
i have nothing to worry though since i just discovered i had the military academy in london and i'm now cranking up production of armies.
one more thing: the manhattan project requires a nuclear plant to build and a nuclear plant requires nuclear fission...so only only one city can build a nuclear plant. nuclear fission does not require water but a nuclear plant does...if u make the mistake of building the nuclear fission in the wrong city then u can never build a nuclear plant and subsequently the manhattan project...case in point: i built nuclear fission in nyc.
the US reinforcements splash does not work and forces the game to quit...missing #WON_SPLASH bla bla entry in pediaicons.txt.
this was world war 2...i think it'd be nice to seriously revise the civilization build preferences. even the swiss were mobilised.
some preferences:
ALL civilizations build offensive, defensive and artillery units optionally plus one other class..either sea or air.
for improvements: ALL democracies get a cheap smith-trading-like small wonder and build trade improvements.
since germany has all the infrastructure it needs, it builds all the classes of units...offense, defense, arty, sea and air....
i mean, we do want the others besides germany and the soviet union to have a fighting chance, dont we?
all wonders that can were made small wonders to make sure they dont fall to wrong hands, took out conquest and added some vp locations, and put in a settler factory small wonder for late game...and then started the game as the british. i see that hardly anyone has played as the british.
i used the first few turns to fine tune the infrastructure so i can research and buy units at will. then i made some alliances (including the soviet union against germany) to make sure the small countries dont harass me..and then i started massing troops at dover.
here are the things i noticed:
-the germans produce Waffen SS exclusively and dont ever bother to produce bombers, fighters, panzers, panthers, submarines, surface ships,etc...nothing. once i destroyed their initial u-boat and battleship fleet i roamed the seas freely...sometimes with unescorted transports. at the height of their power they had 112 SS units mostly in the eastern front since they mostly ignored the french who never got to a start with any kind of counter-attack. this might be due to the 2/unit support for democracies. i cant really see what the difference in govt was at that point between britain and france...i think france should get the benefits of an imperialist govt (imperialism is super-democracy in this scenario).
-after the initial thrust into russia, the german offensive ground to a halt...they didnt even manage to take kiev or minsk. and mind u, i watched this whole thing without lifting a finger to relieve the russians except bombing all roads leading east from berlin with the exception of the road thru munich - they set up a tight air defense system there and all my lancasters were getting shot down.
-the germans tried to land in edinburgh a couple times but once again the lancasters sank them all in the north sea before they could reach land.
as the turns wore on, the russians turned them back and began to actually drive them out. in a few turns they were closing in on danzig and that got me really worried. with all the gold the soviets make, they have nothing to do but research and diplomacy (i left alliances ON for germany, russia and britain) and so they had made this multinational coalition in the east that was harassing the germans so much they were not paying attention to the advancing russians. once they made peace with the little nations they managed to drive the russians back a little but they couldnt really compete with the size and production capacity of the russians and things stalemated again.
this is the time when i officially entered the war on the continent by landing abt 70 shermans, 16 marines and 16 pershings in calais after solving the irish question. i settled the dutch question next and then began taking german cities at leisure. the coastal ones were especially easy since a battleship can bombard a city 9 times and with that lethal land bombardment, abt 4 battleships can empty the defenders off a coastal city.
-i have mopped all the german cities in germany proper...i'm not contesting german cities deep in southeast europe taken from greece and yugoslavia. i've got two problems now: the italians and the russians. i've sent a fleet from alexandria to invade the italians from the south and i'm probably going to open hostilities against the russians with the units facing them in germany
since they are pretending like the only way to italy is thru my territory.
i have 3 armies now so it shouldnt really be that hard. an army of 8 shermans is simply unbeatable.
-the russians completed their "war of survival" two turns ago...their output of t-34's is astounding. in nov 1943 they had 37 t-34's, and in mar 1944 they have 62 t-34's...and we are not counting the ones lost to the germans.
i have nothing to worry though since i just discovered i had the military academy in london and i'm now cranking up production of armies.
one more thing: the manhattan project requires a nuclear plant to build and a nuclear plant requires nuclear fission...so only only one city can build a nuclear plant. nuclear fission does not require water but a nuclear plant does...if u make the mistake of building the nuclear fission in the wrong city then u can never build a nuclear plant and subsequently the manhattan project...case in point: i built nuclear fission in nyc.
the US reinforcements splash does not work and forces the game to quit...missing #WON_SPLASH bla bla entry in pediaicons.txt.
this was world war 2...i think it'd be nice to seriously revise the civilization build preferences. even the swiss were mobilised.
some preferences:
ALL civilizations build offensive, defensive and artillery units optionally plus one other class..either sea or air.
for improvements: ALL democracies get a cheap smith-trading-like small wonder and build trade improvements.
since germany has all the infrastructure it needs, it builds all the classes of units...offense, defense, arty, sea and air....
i mean, we do want the others besides germany and the soviet union to have a fighting chance, dont we?
I don't know why people have so many problems with this scenario. I had trouble with v10.5, but simply read through the thread and figured it out. I tried 11.2 with absolutely no problems on loading.
I will post again with some collected comments based on two complete trips through the screnario as Germany.
I will post again with some collected comments based on two complete trips through the screnario as Germany.
Please let me preface this with a resounding thank you for the effort put forth. The scenario is great and my comments are purely intended as food for thought and brainstorms for enhancements.
I have played the scenario twice, once each with versions 10.5 and 11.2. I have collected a number of comments and comparisons about each. Numbered for reference, not significance.
1) Troop Transports
I loved the troop transport in 10.5, why was it removed in 11.2? One of my favorite tactics was to create an army of flamethrowers, load it onto a transport (because they are non-mechanized), and thrust two extra spaces into enemy territory. Armies of flamethrowers are also nice in a paratroop transport. Another use of the troop transport was to shove the slow Panzer Cracks into a battle. They truly served the intended purpose of letting infantry keep up with a blitzkrieg of tanks.
2) Waffen SS
The Waffen SS in 11.2 is WAY TOO POWERFUL. I saw a recent thread where the poster (as Britain) saw Germany building nothing but SS. I know why this is so. It is too strong, WAY too fast and, when used in an army, is able to reach 30 spaces into enemy territory and then attack in FORCE!! I built almost all of my German armies as purely SS. They only attack three times instead of 5 for panzers, but their range more than makes up for it. I used a platoon of 3-4 SS armies per theater and mopped up. I supported each with a few separate SS and the occasional tank. My 11.2 scenario ended in TOTAL conquest by Sep 1942 that includes taking over all of Russia and even New York/Toronto.
3) Dora Rail Gun
I understand that these units moved on rails and should therefore be fast, but I fear you have modeled them incorrectly. They should be less mobile that other units because they can ONLY go on rails. I think they should have the property set that prevents all movement through any terrain that does not have a road. Like tanks that cannot go through mountains without a road, these guns should not be able to go across even grassland without a road. Since the road in this scenario are really representing railroads I think this would model a rail-only unit correctly. That way if you want them on the eastern from, but the rails have been cut, your workers better get busy.
3b) Dora Rail Guns (part 2)
I dont think these need to be invisible. If a player leaves them undefended, allow them to be attacked. They were not very stealthy due to their bulk (and effects
)and so should not be modeled here as invisible.
4) Mines
I thought the mines were a good idea, but as others have noted they are pretty unusable as is. I think making them movable with a troop transport or paratroop plane would help a lot.
5) Combat Engineers
I did not see any extra value in the combat engineer. They dont work much (any?) faster than workers and their increased range is not a big asset. Giving them an attack value actually lets them rush in a and capture towns (or workers/artillery) that have been left undefended. It seems a little weird that glorified workers would do this. I also used this tactic with the Dora Rail Gun! Can you imagine a rail gun moving into enemy held territory to capture units? Seems silly. I guessed that the attack strength of 1 was to make them die when attacked instead of getting captured. I do think this was a good idea maybe there is another way to implement it like ships and planes that die without fighting back. Another idea what if the combat engineer are the units that can transport mines?
6) Commonwealth Reinforcements
In both versions, when I captured Port Said, I got this wonder and it continued to produce German nationality British Infantry. I hoped for the same from Canadian, US, and Russian Reinforcements, but they were all lost when the cities were captured.
7) Tactics discussions
7a) Oil
Clearly the only resource worth fighting for, but I made a deal with Russia to get Oil in exchange for Mut/Prot and some cash. This allowed an unfettered attack on France and into Rumania to secure my own source. Then I could attack Russia without losing it.
7b) North Africa
In both 10.5 and 11.2 I was able to airlift a significant force to North Africa and use it to sweep to the east. In 10.5, I captured a worker and built another airfield closer to the British cities in Egypt. In 11.2 there is already a nicely located airfield to conquer. From there the British and French oil sources are easily conquered.
7c) Russian Cancer
In 10.5, I loaded a transport with a worker and some military units and sailed to the middle of the black sea. On the next turn, I sailed north to the Russian coast and unloaded (not on the caucuses), but north east of there. On the next turn, Russia demanded that I remove my units, so I did and these units were relocated to a small neutral spot in the center of eastern Russia. I built an airfield and flew every available unit into this field. When the war with Russia started, he had too many places to defend and fell quickly. In 11.2 this was not necessary because of the range of the SS armies I mentioned above.
Sorry for the book length post - I will save some more comments for later. I would love to hear comments on these ideas and tactics.
DaveR.
I have played the scenario twice, once each with versions 10.5 and 11.2. I have collected a number of comments and comparisons about each. Numbered for reference, not significance.
1) Troop Transports
I loved the troop transport in 10.5, why was it removed in 11.2? One of my favorite tactics was to create an army of flamethrowers, load it onto a transport (because they are non-mechanized), and thrust two extra spaces into enemy territory. Armies of flamethrowers are also nice in a paratroop transport. Another use of the troop transport was to shove the slow Panzer Cracks into a battle. They truly served the intended purpose of letting infantry keep up with a blitzkrieg of tanks.
2) Waffen SS
The Waffen SS in 11.2 is WAY TOO POWERFUL. I saw a recent thread where the poster (as Britain) saw Germany building nothing but SS. I know why this is so. It is too strong, WAY too fast and, when used in an army, is able to reach 30 spaces into enemy territory and then attack in FORCE!! I built almost all of my German armies as purely SS. They only attack three times instead of 5 for panzers, but their range more than makes up for it. I used a platoon of 3-4 SS armies per theater and mopped up. I supported each with a few separate SS and the occasional tank. My 11.2 scenario ended in TOTAL conquest by Sep 1942 that includes taking over all of Russia and even New York/Toronto.
3) Dora Rail Gun
I understand that these units moved on rails and should therefore be fast, but I fear you have modeled them incorrectly. They should be less mobile that other units because they can ONLY go on rails. I think they should have the property set that prevents all movement through any terrain that does not have a road. Like tanks that cannot go through mountains without a road, these guns should not be able to go across even grassland without a road. Since the road in this scenario are really representing railroads I think this would model a rail-only unit correctly. That way if you want them on the eastern from, but the rails have been cut, your workers better get busy.
3b) Dora Rail Guns (part 2)
I dont think these need to be invisible. If a player leaves them undefended, allow them to be attacked. They were not very stealthy due to their bulk (and effects
)and so should not be modeled here as invisible.4) Mines
I thought the mines were a good idea, but as others have noted they are pretty unusable as is. I think making them movable with a troop transport or paratroop plane would help a lot.
5) Combat Engineers
I did not see any extra value in the combat engineer. They dont work much (any?) faster than workers and their increased range is not a big asset. Giving them an attack value actually lets them rush in a and capture towns (or workers/artillery) that have been left undefended. It seems a little weird that glorified workers would do this. I also used this tactic with the Dora Rail Gun! Can you imagine a rail gun moving into enemy held territory to capture units? Seems silly. I guessed that the attack strength of 1 was to make them die when attacked instead of getting captured. I do think this was a good idea maybe there is another way to implement it like ships and planes that die without fighting back. Another idea what if the combat engineer are the units that can transport mines?
6) Commonwealth Reinforcements
In both versions, when I captured Port Said, I got this wonder and it continued to produce German nationality British Infantry. I hoped for the same from Canadian, US, and Russian Reinforcements, but they were all lost when the cities were captured.
7) Tactics discussions
7a) Oil
Clearly the only resource worth fighting for, but I made a deal with Russia to get Oil in exchange for Mut/Prot and some cash. This allowed an unfettered attack on France and into Rumania to secure my own source. Then I could attack Russia without losing it.
7b) North Africa
In both 10.5 and 11.2 I was able to airlift a significant force to North Africa and use it to sweep to the east. In 10.5, I captured a worker and built another airfield closer to the British cities in Egypt. In 11.2 there is already a nicely located airfield to conquer. From there the British and French oil sources are easily conquered.
7c) Russian Cancer
In 10.5, I loaded a transport with a worker and some military units and sailed to the middle of the black sea. On the next turn, I sailed north to the Russian coast and unloaded (not on the caucuses), but north east of there. On the next turn, Russia demanded that I remove my units, so I did and these units were relocated to a small neutral spot in the center of eastern Russia. I built an airfield and flew every available unit into this field. When the war with Russia started, he had too many places to defend and fell quickly. In 11.2 this was not necessary because of the range of the SS armies I mentioned above.
Sorry for the book length post - I will save some more comments for later. I would love to hear comments on these ideas and tactics.
DaveR.
wohmongarinf00l
Immortal
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
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just 2 more notes:
-blitzkrieg gives barracks but it's obsoleted by Rocketry....and germany already starts with Rocketry.
-vp locations dont help the french at all. the germans still raze their cities en masse. so i'm going to try to put domination as the only victory condition.
-blitzkrieg gives barracks but it's obsoleted by Rocketry....and germany already starts with Rocketry.
-vp locations dont help the french at all. the germans still raze their cities en masse. so i'm going to try to put domination as the only victory condition.
Phoenix
Creating Scenarios
Too many posts to answer each individual point as I'm very busy with exams at the moment. What I will say is that all of your points and (very good) ideas will be taken on board for when I get around to making the next version.
wohmongarinf00l
Immortal
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i have tried everything including setting 0% resistance on the culture tab, 100% assimilation on the governments tab and a measly 10% corruption in the difficulty tab with )CN running upwards of 84% on Sid to 100% on chieftain.
the germans are still razing french cities....
this is ridiculous and it's a dealbreaker for me. i will touch this once again when some kind soul exposes the inner workings of AI city razing or they provide a NO RAZING option in the editor.
the germans are still razing french cities....
this is ridiculous and it's a dealbreaker for me. i will touch this once again when some kind soul exposes the inner workings of AI city razing or they provide a NO RAZING option in the editor.
Phoenix
Creating Scenarios
Wohmongarinf00l - I did fix this a while back by raising the city limits but obviously firaxis have changed that so that it no longer works. If I were you I'd play as the Germans - conquering stuff is cool anyway - though I would also like to play as the British.
Omega-Legion
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6
Hey J/w how the leaderheads are coming, there's a post some where I saw with 800+ different leaderheads if u are having trouble with them, also eagerly awaiting the next version 
Phoenix
Creating Scenarios
Omega-Legion - Yeh if you could find me a link and post it here then that would help.
BTW - for the next version I will be adding "High Grade Iron Ore" that only the Germans require and have to import it from Sweden so as to make Norway important if you go to war with Russia (the other civs don't need it because they have worldwide empires and/or are not facing international trade boycots). They will need this resource for key things such as their tanks, etc. I have tried this out though and the Sweeds are willing to trade happily - If they change their mind after awhile I may have to put some in Norway to simulate the trade being secure by that time.
I am currently tring it out with Italy out of the locked alliance (becuase they are useless because of the AI) - I managed to get them to declare war on England on the first turn without giving them anything.
Also I have placed the VP locations and am tring those out.
BTW - for the next version I will be adding "High Grade Iron Ore" that only the Germans require and have to import it from Sweden so as to make Norway important if you go to war with Russia (the other civs don't need it because they have worldwide empires and/or are not facing international trade boycots). They will need this resource for key things such as their tanks, etc. I have tried this out though and the Sweeds are willing to trade happily - If they change their mind after awhile I may have to put some in Norway to simulate the trade being secure by that time.
I am currently tring it out with Italy out of the locked alliance (becuase they are useless because of the AI) - I managed to get them to declare war on England on the first turn without giving them anything.
Also I have placed the VP locations and am tring those out.
warmwaffles
Programmer
Pheonix there is a slight problem with the mod GERMANY doesn't have any oil!!! They had oil facilities in Hamburg and some other place (I forgot the name it is near the english coast).
BTW I only play as germany because they had some cool toys!!!
BTW I only play as germany because they had some cool toys!!!
warmwaffles
Programmer
BTW the SS are tooooooo strong pull them down to like a 12 attack and a 10 defense or 13 attack 10 defense one or the other because that is what I did and it works some.
wohmongarinf00l
Immortal
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well..no, the germans did not have natural oil...however, they had synthentic fuel in the industrial ruhr region...
one can make a synfuel factory improvement that costs a lot (say 1000 shields), that produces a panzer every X (say, 4) number of turns but requires 40gold/turn for maintenance. that roughly makes it so that the panzer is NOT actually free.
someone playing as britain can repeatedly bomb the cities that have synfuel factories and hope to destroy them thus putting a big kink in the plans.
one can make a synfuel factory improvement that costs a lot (say 1000 shields), that produces a panzer every X (say, 4) number of turns but requires 40gold/turn for maintenance. that roughly makes it so that the panzer is NOT actually free.
someone playing as britain can repeatedly bomb the cities that have synfuel factories and hope to destroy them thus putting a big kink in the plans.
Phoenix
Creating Scenarios
Drivebymaster - The SS are going to be reduced in strength.
wohmongarinf00l - Sounds like a good idea! I've been thinking of a way to have synthetic oil for a while but never thought of anything.
wohmongarinf00l - Sounds like a good idea!
I've been thinking of a way to have synthetic oil for a while but never thought of anything.Omega-Legion
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6
you could put oil in the cacauces Mt (sp?) the ones septereating Russia from middle east making it more ideal to invade Russia. and gives the Russians something to protect so they won't give up the south as easy (which could lead to a Nazi occupied Middle east.
Phoenix: I'll try to find that thread
Phoenix: I'll try to find that thread
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