The Citadel is the worst UB in the game!

[Kawalimus]

You get it and it expires too quick. Why not just make the Citadel Building expire at Assembly line instead? Seeing how hard it is to get Siege Weapons the XP that +5 can really be a factor. Cause even if the defensive bonuses go away you can certainly use that +5. Ether make it available at construction or do what I said with assembly line.

Imagine how much that could improve the spanish civilization. Their Siege Weapons would be fierce!!

 

[MyOtherName]

You get it and it expires too quick.

Maybe you should reconsider your tech path then; engineering can come quite early, and economics can be deferred until quite late. My latest game with Spain wasn't right for mass producing trebuchets, but I currently have a bigger pile of 10 XP cannons than I know what to do with.

 

[Munch]

The citadel is great, you just need to increase its life span by getting to engineering earlier, and putting off economics. 10xp siege weapons are fierce already, check this thread for a counter-argument to yours: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=282485

 

[Bursk]

Or you could change it so that castles expire with chemistry.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

BtS nerfed the Spanish in general, with the nerf on siege and conquistadores being pushed back to MT+Gunpowder. Normal Cuirassiers fare well enough against Pikemen; the anti-melee bonus for a Knight is much more useful. I'm more annoyed about the latter because the Citadel can still be leveraged effectively.

 

[thadian]

i think that certain techs should cost more than they already do, and obseletions should be postponed.

Thats like saying you should never build the religion bonus wonders because when you get to the modern era they are all voided.

 

[thadian]

today i will play with spain for the first time ever, and post my thoughts. here is what i will do.

Get to engineering fast to get them early
Postpone economics as long as i can


Question: If someone else gets economics, am i obselete or only by ME learning it?

Secondly, i have always agreed castles in general are useless. obselete by chemistry makes far more sense.

 

[r_rolo1]

In civ IV things are only obsoleted when the owner has the obsoleting tech

About chemistry obsoleting castles: that is a bad idea. How could I make citatel boosted cannnons and MG then ?

 

[MasterofDisasta]

I thought the same thing at first but simply built more seige while the citadel was active in oder to make up for it. Build an army of seige while holding off econmics and you can always upgrade them later. Maintenance can get annoying but 10 exp seige (cr 3 anyone?) can be really usefull for the rest of the game.

Plus the free trade routes give you more gold to upgrade them with!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My only problem with the spanish is that the use of the UU and UB have no synergy normally - mounted + siege isn't great. Granted, since conquistadors get defensive bonus, it does have SOME value, but then you can't take advantage of their speed to just tear through city after city.

 

[slobberinbear]

My only problem with the spanish is that the use of the UU and UB have no synergy normally - mounted + siege isn't great. Granted, since conquistadors get defensive bonus, it does have SOME value, but then you can't take advantage of their speed to just tear through city after city.

The benefit of the conquistador + uber-siege stack is that it is uncounterable on a 1:1 basis until the AI gets rifles. You can't be beaten in the field or at the city walls.

CR III Trebuchets and Cannons have a great survival rate when assaulting cities. This helps you get over the suicide siege survival hump, which is very hard to overcome without a Citadel until you have West Point rolling. Not having to replace all of your siege units constantly is a huge boon.

It is worth beelining both Engineering and Military Tradition to get this combo going. I prefer to tech up the upper path to Music first for the free artist (Golden Age, anyone?) then going along the bottom path to Engineering, then back to Nationhood and MT.

 

[Desert-Fox]

You cann have such tech tree where citadel doesnn't come obsolete quickly. You cann build cannnnnons and thennnnnn have 10xp without gennnnerals. But usually with other nationnnnnnnnns I have some of them innn this time so it is not that bad.

 

[King Flevance]

I made it so they obsolete with Coorperations for the time being. I have the feeling though that soon enough I am going to rebalance the castle in general though.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

You cann have such tech tree where citadel doesnn't come obsolete quickly. You cann build cannnnnons and thennnnnn have 10xp without gennnnerals. But usually with other nationnnnnnnnns I have some of them innn this time so it is not that bad.

Don't tell me, you spilt a beer over the bottom part of your keyboard?

 

[J-man]

Don't tell me, you spilt a beer over the bottom part of your keyboard?

I think he spilled beer in his mouth, oh wait.. that's not spilling

On topic: I do think that castles obsolete to soon, this seriously nerfs the Spanish. Also because their UU comes a little late for there anti-melee
bonus.

 

[Lord Chambers]

I'm trying to find the post where I detailed why the Citadel was overpowered on the average map...please hold.

 

[Desert-Fox]

No beer, just practiced writing with a lot of n letters
Citadels are good but if you want overpowered buildings then Cothon +1 trade route in island maps or terrace what gives you almost 3rd trait, or Rathaus what gives you free organized etc. but be happy that you have only one UB per nation so it doesn't matter so much.

 

[King Flevance]

uhmmm... Say what now?

 

[thadian]

ok, your right - it suxxors.

in order to make use of it, you HAVE to go out of your way to take a tech path that normally isn't good. At least for the way i play it isn't good, i like the bonuses but wow. I did NOT enjoy using spain.

 

[r_rolo1]

Cookie cutter alert

I bet that you also moarn about having to tech IW early when playing the romans......