1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Classic Maya

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by The Last Conformist, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    8,802
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    Just dropping by to congratulate you on a scenario well done TLC! I downloaded this and gave it a spin for a few turns (founded some cities, researched a few techs). I enjoy it a lot, especially the leaderheads (well, pictographs :) ). Keep up the good work!
     
  2. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    Thanks for the kind words, Ginger Ale. :)
     
  3. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    'Pedia updated with information on wonders, great and small.
     
  4. Traianus

    Traianus Why is it dark in here?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Dublin
    I've finally managed to clear my schedule and I've just d/loaded the mod. Can't wait!
    I'll be sure to get back to you with any comments. Was also wondering if you had any further thoughts on the diplo interface as I should be able to do some more work on that for you now.
     
  5. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    I don't have any further thoughts about it right now, except that you may want to consider the special glyph LHs used here.
     
  6. Traianus

    Traianus Why is it dark in here?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Dublin
    I'll have a look at them when I get the mod running on my home pc.
     
  7. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    Those glyphs are EXCELLENT! I'm also really interested in the alternative emphasis in gameplay granted by this kind of scenario. Looks like it's developing well dude! :goodjob:

    This is now on my list of scens to play but I'm racked with indecision as to which to go for right now. I hope to give you some feedback after some play.
     
  8. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    7,385
    Location:
    Fontainebleau FRANCE
    OK, eventually got some time to play it.

    First, have I already said the glyphs look fantastic ! (I am sure I have but they are worth the praise and are a great asset).

    Since TLC said civs were basically equal I chose random civ which got me Tikal and I played on monarch (still do actually as I stopped this time in 498 AD.

    First :

    Possible bugs :
    - Tikal city of el Peru starts isolated from the others by FoW (seems a bit weird).
    - altar uses bank pedia (I just saw the pedia updates). Does it work as a bank or as an altar ala MesoAmerica Conquest ?

    Bugs (most are pedia related and might have been covered in the pedia updates. Besides they don't prevent the playing of the game at all).
    Black obsidian uses silk
    Cacao uses grapes
    Jade uses furs
    Precious feathers use ivory
    Not in the game, just in the pedia. BTW you could change the resources index icons as oil looks a bit out of place. Just nicer but not dramatic.

    OK I start and see a few (5) cities lost in the jungle with some roads and some warriors in the cities.
    I look inside the city and see I cannot build much (warriors, settlers, scouts). I look at the city screen and I am horrified to see I will have 40 turns of research (90% research) just to get to warriors. OK since I se no other civ, I guess I am supposed to explore and expand which I do.

    In 262 AD, Calakmul and Caracol send warriors on my borders. That was quick so they must not be far.

    298 AD scout sent West meets Piedas Negras. I expand a little but still 15 turns to corvée.

    330 AD scout meets Palenque

    358 Corvée researched ! I have now 9 cities, a tenth next turn and I discover the sea SE of a Caracol
    Mexico proposes a contact exchange (Tonina for Calakmul) OK. Nobody can really trade techs or lux and we still all have about the same amount of money (~10 g).

    386 I had sent a settler West to claim a spice very close to Piedas Negras. Far from home but the road is already built. Scout meets barbarians in Mexico. Meet 8th civ.

    414 Capital produces army ! I was stacking to attack Caracol now I sure will? They are quite small and I could occupy up to the sea which is a good frontier.
    Note : the army looks really out of place here. If someone could make a Amerindian one, that'd be swell !

    430 : stoneworking --> Trade

    438 : scout get 25g from a PAcific coast Indian village north of the Yucatan (sic !)

    446 : spirces hooked. 2 civs start working on Trade Network so they went through a different branch of the tech-tree. No trade.

    450 : Calakmul enters my territory at Ixla, city with less than 10 cultures which happens to be near his capital. My troops ready to strike Caracol capital in two turns turn back.

    454 : Calakmul attack usand capture the city (1 warriro only).

    462 : other group attacks from the East but that's where my troops arrive. I think I am the one who expanded the most, I am mining my lands and all my cities have at least 1 militia + 1 warrior to defend them.
    Army succeeds in killing one warrior around a city of mine.

    466 : his 2 other warriors (regulars) there attack and kill my army :-((((
    My other troops arrive and dispatch them

    482 : Trade --> Teotihuacan connection for the Mexicans ! I don't even try to build the Royal Trade Network.
    2 civs already signed Trade Embargoes against with Calakmul. Well I have nothing to trade anyway.

    486 : I attack Ixla and lose all my troops killing his army (ok), trying to get Ixla back (a regular militia kills me 4 warriors while one of his regular warrior killed ane of my militia before without much damage....) and in the counter-attack. A lone warrior pillaging in the East does damage, kills 2 warriors but finally dies. My army is down to only defenders.

    498 : he sent militias to pillage my territory and annoy my many workers. I have prepared 2 settlers to grab 2 precious feathers in the SW before Caracol takes advantage of my weakness. I need to rebuild my army but I cannot do much new and will probably try to sign peace even if the war cost me a city.
    I stop here for the day.

    Note I had taken a screenshot but copied something else before pasting it into a image software. Sorry for that. Another time.


    First impressions :

    ++ : the glyphs, the complete tech-tree, the balance of the civs, the good integration of units (till now) and such.

    -- : well, the balance of the civs in a way. The beginning is a bit slow.
     
  9. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    Not so much a bug as an oversight. Same will apply for Calakmul's Cuello. I'll get around to editing the FoW.
    That's just 'cos 'pedia for buildings and resources isn't finished. Yeah, I know, I'm lazy. The Altar just gives one culture - no economic benefit.
    Hopefully, Steph will convert one for me. I've requested one, but he's the only one who've even hinted he might do one. If you know of a generic "primitive" army graphic, that could be worth checking out.
    North of the Yucatan? What, in the sea? :crazyeye:

    Anyway, I know the names of barbarians from goody huts are messed up. I even know how to fix them, once I conjure up the motivation; it'll be alot of tedious work.

    It shouldn't take 40 turns to research Corvée as Tikal, not on Monarch at any rate. In fact, it seems it took you 27 turns to research it. The early game goes faster if you start researching Trade or Stoneworking, and then swap it for Corvée with an AI.

    The Mexicans, for reasons that should need little explanation, starts out with the tech The Teotihuacan Connection; it's just that it only shows up to you once you've mastered trade. Do buy Green Obsidian if you can - the Mexican Ally units is good value early on (2/3 the cost of a Javeline Thrower, but can't enslave).

    Re: the whole "slow start" issue, I originally put it in because i) the Early Classic was a period of exploration and colonization, ii) I wanted to keep the scen from becoming too purely a slaughterfest, and iii) I feel better if the player splash down cities in ahistorical locations than if I do it in the editor (many of the cities in the city lists lay too close to one another for historical placement). I wanted it to be closer to the Epic game than what your typical "The War of X" scenario is. I've moved a bit towards the "preset" side over development - originally, Copán started with just settlers, frex. Reactions have been mixed.

    I could continue tweaking to give you more to do early on - Scouts were mostly added to spice up the early game, frex - but I suppose I ultimately have two options; keeping things mostly as is, with a "slow start", or move the start date forward, give some starting techs (two first-tier techs per civ, say), and place more cities and units. Maybe I should do both - provide a "slow" and a "fast" biq.

    I don't get your comment about the balance of the civs. What is negative?

    Armies, as you've noticed, are quite vulnerable here. What do you like this Army format? Personally, I think it's great (I would, wouldn't I? ;)), but some people find them too wimpy. Of course, I could up the HP bonus to make them harder without destroying the AI's ability to use them, but I think the present way forces you to be more careful, and therefore places a higher premium on tactical skills.

    Yeah, and you'll appreciate that the Armies aren't tougher if/when the Mexicans start throwing Toltec Armies at you. :p
     
  10. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    I tried fixing the Fog of War issue, but despite changing the active player, it doesn't seem I can edit the Fog of War differently for different civs. What gives?
     
  11. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    That fog of war for different civs is a tough one. You can hide certain backward or surprise civs under fog of war. Of course they don't experience the tiles they start on as FOW but the others will simply not know they are there. The rest of the map on the biq may be 'open' but those starting in the the fog of war will have a different experience. You can try it by loading up either a Euro or Local civ in my scen, in which we tried to do this.
     
  12. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    IOW, it's just not possible to edit the FoW independently for different civs?

    If so, the only sensible solution to that little oddity would be preplacing a couple scouts or something to reveal the relevant bits.
     
  13. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    Afaik no.
    Sounds sensible. It has the same effect afterall, with a bit more control.
     
  14. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    Download the biq for v0.51 in this post. :)

    The changes are rather minor:

    * Barbarian names reworked, so that all barbs popped from huts are called simply "Barbarian". This stops you from getting Pacific Coast Barbarians in the northern Yucatan, frex.

    * Most Maya factions start with a Scout now. Tikal's is placed so-as-to reveal the area 'tween El Perú and the rest of Tikal's territory.

    * A patch or ruins to represent El Mirador is added 'tween Calakmul and Uaxactún. I also plopped some ruins south of the upper Motagua, to represent Kaminaljuyú.

    * Some extra barbarians added along the San Pedro Martir (the river running from El Perú to Pomona).

    * The Fighter unit is allowed for Barbarians (meaning you can get them from huts).


    Additional changes being pondered:

    * Improving scouts by making the ATR (but then only one movement point) and/or giving them the radar ability (see two squares).

    * Adding some uber-primitive techs to a Preclassic era, allowing for starting techs (=> more trade early on) and generally making the early game more eventful. The techs would have to be rather empty unit- and building-wise, but could reveal resources, frex.

    * Improving the Raider unit.

    Again, I'd like feedback on these ideas.
     
  15. Traianus

    Traianus Why is it dark in here?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Dublin
    I d/loaded from the first post and it just contained a heap of files without any folder structure. I think it might be the fault of my winzip program. I was just wondering if any of you have heard of a problem like this before.
     
  16. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    No, I've not heard anything like it before. Your winzip app would indeed seem the most likely culprit. I made the zip with WinRAR, which is freely download able (just do a google for "winrar download" and you should find it); you might want to try this in lieu of whatever you are using now.
     
  17. Traianus

    Traianus Why is it dark in here?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Dublin
    Thanks TLC. I have winrar installed aswell. I'll try that.
    Got some more work done on the diplo interface over the w'end. At the mo it's essentially the same as the last preview you saw. I just cleaned it up a bit. I'll upload the result over the next couple of days.
     
  18. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    That sounds good. Hope you enjoy the scen. :)
     
  19. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    Still waiting for you to tell me which civ you want play tested.
     
  20. Traianus

    Traianus Why is it dark in here?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Dublin
    Yeah. If you want me to try a specific civ also, just say.
    Edit: The dowload works fine with WinRar.
     

Share This Page