The computer knows

[Whythat]

where all of my units are? How come I can't see the computers?

I've experienced with his settler units and choke points between my territory and some unsettled land six or seven moves away from the computer. If I block the choke point the computer goes back to his territory. As soon as I unblock the choke point the computer will start moving to the unsettled territory again.

I mostly get frustrated in how the computer can always find my offensive units that are undefended or worse my undefended cities.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Yeah, join the club.

You should get a couple of replies next on how everyone uses the AI's tendency to know where your weak points are against it - which is a good strategy, but it's sort of a slap in the face that the AI even knows this info and the player doesn't.

I wonder what else the AI knows that isn't as obvious.

 

[Northen Wolf]

hey, does Ai knowing territory annoy you so much? Ai knows, but still human wins, those small bonuses give AI chance to fight human, unless you use its knowledge and bait it between empty towns etc.

Human gets against ai so often that does bonus only help AI to give some challenge in game.

 

[Sweetchuck]

hey, does Ai knowing territory annoy you so much? Ai knows, but still human wins, those small bonuses give AI chance to fight human, unless you use its knowledge and bait it between empty towns etc.

Human gets against ai so often that does bonus only help AI to give some challenge in game.

I hear ya, Wolf - loud and clear.

And yeah, it does bug me a little - mostly the predictability of the issue and the fact that there is a baked-in knowledge that another live player wouldn't otherwise know.

Having said that, I'm all for an AI advantage - and it would be nice to see some strategy from the AI - like an unexpected flank attack or a planned attack. Maybe that's asking too much from a programed system - but playing against a foe that will send it's units toward your city one at a time as soon as they are built or their entire stack of offense toward that once city that's the least defended, it gets a bit predictably tiresome.

Overall, it's a well designed system - but most of us players are playing the AI and the AI's tendencies become pretty obvious after a while.

 

[mythmonster2]

It also knows where all the resources are, even undiscovered ones. For that matter, I believe it also has the world map IIRC.

 

[vmxa]

The AI know what is on all tiles, so if you have an empty town it knows that and was stated where all resources will be, before it has the tech. It does not know how to get to a given tile, until is has explored the area or gotten a map.

This was not done so much to help the AI as it was done to help the programmers and to save compute power. If they had to code more into it to deal with all the pathing issues, it would cost more and need more power.

It is really a double edge sword for the AI as players use this against them all the time. They use the bare naked lady or empty town to get the AI to go where they want. So it is not clear to me that it is a strategic gain for the AI.

 

[marineman]

Have you ever noticed once or twice the AI has roaded for no reason on a hill or mountain even though there's nothing there? Well there probably is some sort of resource there you just cant see.

 

[Northen Wolf]

It is really a double edge sword for the AI as players use this against them all the time. They use the bare naked lady or empty town to get the AI to go where they want. So it is not clear to me that it is a strategic gain for the AI.

Well, every game has AI weaknesses, when you first got civ3 you thought too, how well AI is programmed. But Anyone can use program weaknesses, most games have bugs/glitches/weak spots and more you play, more you find and use them.

For short battles, without baiting AI and using its weak programming against itself it is quite good Ai. (Other weakness i can come up with is that, it can't use artillery stacks.)

 

[Aabraxan]

Have you ever noticed once or twice the AI has roaded for no reason on a hill or mountain even though there's nothing there? Well there probably is some sort of resource there you just cant see.

It's even better when the AI roads an (apparently) empty tile and doesn't even connect that road to any other tiles. It's like a little "X marks the spot."

 

[Northen Wolf]

It's even better when the AI roads an (apparently) empty tile and doesn't even connect that road to any other tiles. It's like a little "X marks the spot."

Spot is usually mined too.

 

[TheOverseer714]

If the AI settles in an otherwise useless area, you can bet there is an unseeen resource there. Desert equals Saltpeter or Oil, Tundra is Oil or Uranium, Hills can be Iron, Coal, Aluminum or even Horses, and Jungle can be Coal or Rubber. Once you know that, you can know where and when to attack to get a resource you lack.

 

[marineman]

It's even better when the AI roads an (apparently) empty tile and doesn't even connect that road to any other tiles. It's like a little "X marks the spot."

yah. That exploit has gotten me oil/rubber/ etc dozens of times

 

[Whythat]

If the AI settles in an otherwise useless area, you can bet there is an unseeen resource there. Desert equals Saltpeter or Oil, Tundra is Oil or Uranium, Hills can be Iron, Coal, Aluminum or even Horses, and Jungle can be Coal or Rubber. Once you know that, you can know where and when to attack to get a resource you lack.

Yeah, I figured that one out on accident. I had two desert cities next to each other with equal defenses. The computer set everything against one of the cities and ignored the other one. Eventually I had oil under the city it attacked.

The IT knowing where my fleet is though is proving troublesome for moving my attack force past his bomber groups. If I build fighters and put them on a carrier can I set them to control the skies over my ship stacks?

 

[TheOverseer714]

The IT knowing where my fleet is though is proving troublesome for moving my attack force past his bomber groups. If I build fighters and put them on a carrier can I set them to control the skies over my ship stacks?

I think you can put fighters on air superiority while on a carrier, so I believe you can protect them that way. You can also do a stack of Battleships to guard your carriers and transports. Here is a picture of my invasion fleet in a recent game, it survived bomber, sub and destoyer attacks for several turns and successfully landed a good sized invasion without any air cover.

Spoiler :

 

[timerover51]

Nicely organized force, Overseer. Can see why it made it through, you went for a good balance.

 

[Whythat]

I agree that is an awesome fleet, I need to work on my patience to build. Another question that is completely unrelated but I noticed you loaded an army on the transport, Can you load armies in transports in Civ Complete? Or did you have to mod it?

 

[vmxa]

You can load armies in all the three versions of Civ3. It is just a question of how many units you have in the army and the ship capacity. IOW a galley can have a 1 man army. A caravel can have a 2 man army and so on.

You should not have to make massive fleets. I figure you normally only need a few escorts. I don't build carriers or battleships or cruiser. Destroyers are plenty and are cheaper and have better range.

Exceptions are in 250 or better maps of AW continents. You will need a fleet to handle 30 civs, but even then no carriers. Don't mess around, gather all the transports and cover them with 4 destroyers and you are golden. I some times cover with frigates.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I built the fleet that large because the English had 50+ destroyers and plenty of bombers, and overkill beats losing 2 armies and about 20 other good units. On each IBT I lost several ships to destroyers, subs and bombers. I lost all of my picket destroyers and several cruisers by the second IBT, but I dropped off my troops safely. Enemy subs will destroy transports and carriers if they can get through, which is why I had the formation in the picture.

 

[vmxa]

It looks like if you stage at the closest point, you could get in and land in 2 or 3 turns. How many ships will they have in range to attack in that time? What was the turn number at the time and the map size and level?

Just curious to see if I could setup to see if the AI could build such a fleet. I have not even seen a fleet like that on Sid island huge maps conquest only. Even when they have over 2000 units.

I have seen some big fleets in games posted on the board, I don't recall any that size. I played a lot of 250x250 and some 362x362 conquest only with 30 civs and not seen that. I see them with large numbers of frigates, not much later stuff.

We will see how they fare in GR23, they will have the best shot at getting IA units in that one as we will be some time in coming for them.

My first Sid continents game looked a lot like that map. I had all of one large continents and the other civ had nearly all of the other. I made a mistake and killed off the next to last civ on his land, very dumb.

I had the game in the bag, until then. I had forgotten about culture and without the other civ in the game, I was doubled and lost. They had no chance to win if I had only prevented attacks on the last town, a lesion learned.

 

[TheOverseer714]

The English went nuts with naval builds that game, I had some long IBTs waiting for them to finish bombarding useless towns with their massive Destroyer stacks. This was in my "Instant War Weariness" game, where I was forced into Communism by an English attack on a farm area. I had my continent at the end, they had theirs and I did a massive D-Day style attack just for practice and fun. I actually won with a spaceship, but someday I will dig up that save and finish the invasion by destroying them. Here is the link to the thread where the picture above came from: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274452&page=4&highlight=Instant+War+Weariness