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The Conscientious Empire: A Peaceful Builder Challenge

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by D.N. Pacem, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I wouldn't even care if Mercs were a special unit. I'd just like to be able to buy, sell & give away military units. For example, if I made an MA with a weaker neighbor of my enemy, I could supply my ally with some cavs to help prop them up.
     
  2. timerover51

    timerover51 Chieftain

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    Hmmm, I think that you might be able to do that if you play with the editor a bit. I will do some looking at it and get back to you on that one. For a civilization that has the ability to enslave units, that might work fairly easily, have to look at the rest.

    Snarkhunter, I like your idea of the condottierri, but that would take some work on the source code. Have to include the possibility of them when flipping, taking a city with them. Plenty of discussion of the fun of having mercenaries in Oman's Art of War in the Middle Ages, and Age of War in the 16th Century, and also Machiavelli.

    And the classic quote from him: "Gold with not always get you good mercenaries, but good mercenaries can always get you gold."
     
  3. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Thanks, timerover. I look forward to hearing what you find.
     
  4. Snarkhunter

    Snarkhunter Chieftain

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    Ah yes, Niccolo is always good for a zinger or two :)

    As long as we are fantasizing about mercs, we have to allow for the possibility of them becoming unemployed & then pillaging the entire landscape, a la the routiers in the 100 Years' set-to. Sort of super barbarians--there are parts of France that are claimed still haven't recovered from that treatment. . . .

    Edit: Which means the Conscientious Builder can't use them, I guess (-:

    kk
     
  5. D.N. Pacem

    D.N. Pacem Chieftain

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    Oh, I don't know... I kind of like the idea of hiring professional soldiers to fight a (justified) war rather than sending my own people off to fight and die.

    Along those lines, I think using mercenaries should decrease war weariness.
     
  6. Snarkhunter

    Snarkhunter Chieftain

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    Depends. The 100 Years' & 30 Years' Wars, & for that matter, the Revolution (remember those pesky Hessians being quartered willy nilly everywhere? :) ) stand as eloquent contradictions. The problems start when mercs decide to go into business for themselves, not their employers. OTOH, if the mercs stay bought--and you aren't visiting them on your own people--then you are probably right, especially if it means avoiding conscription.

    Side note: for fun, I revisited one of my early Warlord games (& was appalled at how bad the position was at about 100 turns--how did I ever win that dog the first time?). The Aztecs block my access to everything & after dealing with them & their push for Lebensraum, I'm ready to declare any war against them, at any time, a Just War :lol: There just aren't too many pushier AI's in the game, IMHO.

    kk
     
  7. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Persia and the Greeks come to mind, they both seem to be real jerks when it it comes to trading and making demands. Sure, I'll trade Alphabet, Masory and 20 gold for Ceremonial Burial.... Not! And I'll give you Niagara Falls and Code of Laws when you demand, also. When pigs fly over the frozen lakes of hell!
     
  8. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras Chieftain

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    I think this comes about because Persia and the Greeks both have kickin' UUs that tend to give them a military advantage at the height of the Ancient Age. The AI has a lot more bluster when it has a military advantage, or at least parity. Both Greece and Persia tend to chill out a bit when their UUs are past their prime, in my experience (at least, if they are still around at all :evil:).
     
  9. D.N. Pacem

    D.N. Pacem Chieftain

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    Yes, mercenaries should be a double-edged sword. They should reduce WW when fighting in foreign lands, but cause trouble when garrisoned too long in your own civ’s barracks.

    For that to work, you couldn’t be able to disband them. After the war, you’re stuck with them until you can sell them to someone else.

    There could be a special wonder created to produce them, or they could be a cheap optional build from the military academy.


    This is a gray area open to individual (and circumstantial) interpretation, but at the least I could condone starting a war to reclaim cities conquered by an aggressive neighbor.

    The Aztecs and Persians particularly have been thorns in my side, but I do remember a game with the Greeks in which Al kept condescendingly referring to us as “the tiny nation of India.” (I had the last laugh, though.)

    Demigod quest

    My strategy for taking the CE to demigod level has centered on building the Great Library. My first attempts alternated between the Byzantines and the Koreans because I wanted a scientific civ that started with alphabet and had a mid-game UU. I’ve been playing right down the middle – continents, 70% water, normal, temperate, 4 billion years, roaming barbs, random opponents and all victory conditions enabled (except wonder).

    When I got bored with those civs, I dropped the scientific requirement. I tried the Vikings and the Romans, but I finally got my DG win – a spaceship victory no less – with the Portuguese! :eek:

    I got a very isolated start up in the northwest corner of the map, which allowed me to build a modest empire with little resistance. The expansionist and seafaring traits helped me make contacts quickly. I had a couple of luxuries including extras to trade, and got lucky with resources all the way up to the modern age.

    The Inca declared an early war on me, allowing me to take the city they had built on my land, but I was at peace from the Medieval Age onward. My GA was started by a privateer attack.

    Still, the Byzantines beat me to the modern age by quite a bit, and I could see they already had (at least) rocketry and computers when I got there. We finished fission on the same turn, but a hefty pre-build ensured that I got the U.N. first. I started planning to try for a diplomatic victory.

    I researched nuclear power (they, it turned out, went for ecology), and when I traded NP to Theodora for rocketry, I found that they already had spaceflight.

    But they had no aluminum.

    I was able to find some aluminum and uranium in areas opened up by warfare, and, long story short, I beat them to the launch pad.
     
  10. Rodent

    Rodent Carnage

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    :goodjob: D.N !

    That game was played as the Conscientious Empire?
     
  11. D.N. Pacem

    D.N. Pacem Chieftain

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    Yup.

    I preserved my empire's only whale and turned down enough free ivory to build 10 statues of Zeus.

    I only had one slave to deal with, and I used him to lure an Incan swordsman out of the mountains so I could pick him off. :mwaha:
     
  12. timerover51

    timerover51 Chieftain

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    Congratulations, D.N., on an outstanding win. Fortune, and the resource generator favored the good this time.
     
  13. Death_Machine

    Death_Machine Slaytanic Warrior

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    No, you're not the only one. It's funny that you mention oil, because misguided individuals like the one who started this thread are the reason we're paying $4 a gallon gas.

    I came in here looking for some builder tips I might not know & I wind up with some communist changing the game around with some kind of real world values he holds. If I want some left wing crap spoon fed to me then I will turn on the nightly news.

    If I want to make the game harder I'll go up a level, plenty of challenge there.

    Moderator Action: Threadjacking & trolling - warned.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  14. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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  15. Death_Machine

    Death_Machine Slaytanic Warrior

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    Doug, that's all fine & good except the double standard you are using. You accept the premise that he can say what he wants while posting your displeasure about me doing the same thing. Get it?

    Don't get your panties in a bunch just because I expressed my opinion just like he did. I never once said or implied that he should not feel free to express his opinion. I simply disagreed with it.
     
  16. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    No double standard here... he started the thread you didn't. You can post a separate thread of your own if you like.
     
  17. D.N. Pacem

    D.N. Pacem Chieftain

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    I'm not out to spoon-feed anyone anything. I apologize if the title of the thread misled you.
     
  18. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras Chieftain

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    Nothing could be further from the truth. You employed rudeness and hyperbole. He didn't.

    The manner in which you voice your opinion matters.
     
  19. Death_Machine

    Death_Machine Slaytanic Warrior

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    Or I could just blow you off, make a mental note that you're a tool post where I want. Yes, I believe that is what I will do.
     
  20. Death_Machine

    Death_Machine Slaytanic Warrior

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    It's all good dude. No worries. The title made sense, my mind was just going down a different path. What I like about forums is that we can all express what we want. :cool:
     

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