The corporations (guilds) in FF

[apotheoser]

An important difference about the guilds in FF versus vanilla Civ4 is that FF corporations don't have headquarters.

However, I was experimenting with a new civ for FF. The civ was supposed to follow a colonialist, early industrial theme. I thought it would be interesting if this civ had a corporation they could spread, but that worked like a vanilla civ 4 corporation - with +maintenance costs in branches, and +gold in the corporation hq.

So I set the civ's palace to be the HQ of their civ corporation, with various bonuses I would play with.

It was working fine until I also happened to get a great engineer, and I tried founding Stonefire in the capital as well. Then things got really weird.

Upon founding Stonefire, my civ corporation was INSTANTLY erased from every city and replaced with Stonefire. I also lost the ability to build the civ corporation executive unit.

Is this an unintended side effect of FF corporations not having HQs? That we can't use HQs with multiple corporations? It's like the Stonefire hijacked my original civ corporation.

Could we perhaps implement some FF corporation HQs? That might make things a bit more interesting. Even if we just shuffle things around a bit - for example what if Guild of Hammers was the Stonefire HQ? Or Theatre of Dreams was Masquerade HQ?

Maybe we could get a few different corporations, too. As of right now the corporations don't really overlap much so you pretty much always want all of them (Fabricaforma and Stonefire do overlap a bit) - they only give bonuses and they use different resources.

It seems like an oversight that there's no corporation that uses mana, either.

 

[WarKirby]

doesn't the Farmer's Guild use Air mana?

 

[apotheoser]

doesn't the Farmer's Guild use Air mana?

Honestly I'm not sure. If it does it seems to be sort of bugged and use it sometimes but not others? I mean it's on the screen some times, but not others. And why is it Air, any way? Shouldn't it be Water or Earth or Nature?

Edit: The CorporationInfos.xml doesn't have Air listed for Farmer's Guild, but I know I've seen it before. Might have been a bug of some kind.

But really I was thinking of something more like a Wizard's Guild or something that would use some of the less useful manas, with the guild being created by a Great Sage or Prophet.

Also, a Banker's Guild could be interesting.

But I'm going to mess around with making some Wonder HQs for the various corporations, see what I can come up with.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It seems quite odd for air to be related to the farmers guild. Farming seems closely associated with the Goddess of the Harvest, which is one role of Kilmorph. She represents honest hard work, and reaping the benefits thereof. That is necessary for a farm to prosper. Tali is about irresponsibility, so air mana should hurt a farmers guild if it effects it at all.

 

[WarKirby]

I'm sure I remember seeing Air Mana as one of the resources used by the Farmer's Guild. It stuck in my mind because it was the only type of mana used by any of the guilds

perhaps it was an error, and has been removed now. But I swear it was there a few patches ago.


personally, I always passed it off as air mana = better windmills.
Although in general, isn't Amatheon more of a god of the harvest than Kilmorph? He has the extra food result on the monument event, and Creation is his precept, is it not?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Amathaon is the god of Creation, but not of the harvest. He is the god of birth, conception, imagination, and fertility in general--both literally and figuratively. He would probably be associated with Spring (although it is Tali who presides over the season), not with autumn like Kilmorph and the harvest season. Amathaon is likely invoked when sowing seeds and waiting for them to first sprout, Sucellus while tending to them and letting them grow, and Kilmorph when the time comes to reap what had been sown.

 

[Vehem]

It seems quite odd for air to be related to the farmers guild. Farming seems closely associated with the Goddess of the Harvest, which is one role of Kilmorph. She represents honest hard work, and reaping the benefits thereof. That is necessary for a farm to prosper. Tali is about irresponsibility, so air mana should hurt a farmers guild if it effects it at all.

Shouldn't be a consumed-resource at all. If anyone sees it again, can you get a screenshot/save game to find out which one is being replaced...

 

[khanjackal]

I always thought it was ice mana. Magical refrigeration.

 

[Breez]

On the subject of guilds...

I have seen (many patches ago) creating a guild with a GP doesn't always work. The GP is sacrificed but no guild is formed and can not build the guilds workers to spread it. Can load saved game a few times and get it usually.

I also noticed the same sort of thing the OP mentioned, having 2 guilds in one city doesn't work well... is that entended?

How SHOULD these be working? I am not sure what is a bug and what isn't.

- Is there only a CHANCE of forming a guild with a GP or should it be 100%?
- Is there a limit to the number of guilds in one city?
- The bonus from the guild, should it show up in the city as a building? if not is it possible to see how a guild is doing in a particular city?

 

[apotheoser]

On the subject of guilds...

I have seen (many patches ago) creating a guild with a GP doesn't always work. The GP is sacrificed but no guild is formed and can not build the guilds workers to spread it. Can load saved game a few times and get it usually.

I also noticed the same sort of thing the OP mentioned, having 2 guilds in one city doesn't work well... is that entended?

How SHOULD these be working? I am not sure what is a bug and what isn't.

- Is there only a CHANCE of forming a guild with a GP or should it be 100%?

I think this is because vanilla Corporations are founded because a GP creates a wonder, which is the Corporation HQ. The HQ then automatically spreads the Corporation to the city.

However in FF I think the GP spreads the corporation like an Executive? Which has a chance to fail based on a spread factor in the XML somewhere. Also it seems to have a chance to fail based on the number of other corporations in the city.

- Is there a limit to the number of guilds in one city?

I've had at least 4 before, so I'd think no. But it seems to be harder and harder to spread them.

- The bonus from the guild, should it show up in the city as a building? if not is it possible to see how a guild is doing in a particular city?

Yes, go to the Guilds screen and highlight the Guild you're interested in. It'll let you know the effects on a city-by-city basis.

Or, if you're in the City screen, you can hover the mouse over the icon for the Guild, which is the in upper-right hand corner of the City screen.

 

[Breez]

I've had at least 4 before, so I'd think no. But it seems to be harder and harder to spread them.

I have had 2 or 3 but I have also have one that gets over written by another so was confused over what is expected.

Yes, go to the Guilds screen and highlight the Guild you're interested in. It'll let you know the effects on a city-by-city basis.

Or, if you're in the City screen, you can hover the mouse over the icon for the Guild, which is the in upper-right hand corner of the City screen.

ahh I was in the city screen, not an adviser screen, will look for that thanks.

 

[Mylon]

The Stonefire hammers and Fabrica Forma compete, I believe.

I can't say I'm terribly fond of how the kingfisher guild works: It can only be spread to coastal cities, even though inland cities can get the health benefit.

 

[WarKirby]

The Stonefire hammers and Fabrica Forma compete, I believe.

I can't say I'm terribly fond of how the kingfisher guild works: It can only be spread to coastal cities, even though inland cities can get the health benefit.

I agree.

Surely the point of such a thing, would be to sell fish to people who DON'T live on the coast, and can't normally acess it.

 

[apotheoser]

Shouldn't be a consumed-resource at all. If anyone sees it again, can you get a screenshot/save game to find out which one is being replaced...

By the way, I just encountered another bug:

First, even if a corporation consumes more than 5 resources, only the first 5 will be displayed on the Guilds tab.

Second, if you list too many bonuses (some number more than 6, I don't know exactly what the magic number is), the entire game will CtD on startup.

 

[apotheoser]

Aha! I found the rogue Air mana!

It's only on the actual Farmer's Guild pedia screen:

So weird!

 

[Vehem]

By the way, I just encountered another bug:

First, even if a corporation consumes more than 5 resources, only the first 5 will be displayed on the Guilds tab.

Second, if you list too many bonuses (some number more than 6, I don't know exactly what the magic number is), the entire game will CtD on startup.

Odd one - luckily the existing guilds only use a max of 5, but it'd be nice to have the option of more...

Aha! I found the rogue Air mana!

It's only on the actual Farmer's Guild pedia screen:
So weird!

That it is. It's not actually on the list of consumed items (no comma after the cow and it's down on the next line), but I currently have no idea what it's doing there at all.

 

[apotheoser]

New corporation bug/question: corporations I create never show their corporation logo properly on the world map, next to the city name. It's always displayed as a blank square there and in the pedia. Does only certain kind of art work for that? Or is there somewhere else I need to define it, besides just the corporationinfo.xml?

 

[Dora190]

Surley the farmers should use Sun or Water mana. The fishermen would be air and the stone fire guild would be Earth or Fire. Fabricaforma not sure nature? Spirit?

 

[apotheoser]

Surley the farmers should use Sun or Water mana. The fishermen would be air and the stone fire guild would be Earth or Fire. Fabricaforma not sure nature? Spirit?

Why would fishermen use air?

The problem with Farmers is I can see at least 6 manas that it would "make sense" for them to use: Life, Water, Nature, Earth, Creation, and Sun - at least. You could make arguments for others as well.

However keep in mind we are basically capped at 5 resources per guild right now so there isn't much reason to worry about expanding farmers.

 

[JimMorrison]

Why would fishermen use air?

Because they're "fly" fishermen, of course!