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The Crusades

Discussion in 'World History' started by Becka, Nov 7, 2001.

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  1. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    Spoiler :


    that's how culture works, different cultures mix up, get mashed, form something new, sometimes one surpresses and almost destroys another (though still incorporating a little...) i doubt you'll find a lot of englishmen who call their culture norman or saxon... that's because they're english now...

    and get over your obsession with jews, boy... :rolleyes:

    oh and the discussion how black egyptians were aside, i doubt anyone would argue that they were not african...
     
  2. aryann

    aryann Warlord

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    Immigration on such a scale as today has never happened before where people go to live in a country's existing infastructure. This is a new phenomenon (sp?) This is not how cultures work. And if your trying to say people didn't resist to cultural extermination in the past you are wrong. I'm not going to stand by and die slowly like a toad getting boiled and be, "supressed," as you put it, simply because it has happened before. People have been run over before but I'm pretty sure you look both ways before you cross the road...

    For ANY foreign peoples to hold such Rasputin-like power over us, to an extent where we are bound to do as they wish, I naturally dislike it. I've said this before. All people have naturally disliked this throughout history, until the post-WW2 era where a form of indocrination has taken place.

    As for the Egyptians, I though I said apart from North Africans...(?)

    Try to answer without iffy-fluffy leftist cleches. I'm not trying to offend you, I'm just sick of hearing how we'd all die if everyone around us wasn't non western-european and how we can put the c*ap happening now adays down to being a historical recurrence; I'm not even asking you to answer, I'm just saying, if you do, don't snipe without cause or substance. Immigration to Britain is very old, true, but I wouldn't give a damn if a Chinese guy moved over the other side of town, he'd intergrate. What's he gonna do, form a one man gang? I would care however, if the whole town I've lived in all my life turned Chinese. This would give me no say in anything in my own town, few places of worship, at the mercy of foreign peoples, at the rule of foreign peoples, with no place to get the type of food (silly example,) I used to have, etc.

    But what the heck, if wiping every single last western-Europeans has been going on for thousands of years, I'll sit back and take it. (???????????)


    Off-topic. Is there any way of changing my name? (I'm not aryan blooded.)
     
  3. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    No, it had happened before, many times in history.

    Consider the mass emigration of Jews into then almost-exclusively Arab Ottoman Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th century. Or the mass migration of Tamils into Sri Lanka or Nepalese into Sikkim, or of South Asians into Indian Ocean and Pacific islands, and places like Malaysia and Singapore (partly as a result of British policy of the time).

    Also consider colonisation. In Australia, parts of Africa, and the Americas, the indigenous culture was superceded by the immigrant culture brought in by large movement of people. For earlier examples, think back to Turkish (from Central Asia) or Arab immigration in the Middle East in medieval times, Chinese immigration to South East Asia in the Ming and Qing dynasties, the Germanic Mass Migration into Roman territory, et cetera.

    In all of these cases the immigrants came to live in areas with established indigenous population. The cultural mix of the area changes slowly over time, and, in these examples, the immigrant culture eventually became dominant, but usually incorporates many aspects of the indigenous culture. And that is how culture had been throughout history. It spreads, and changes as it does. And it spreads in most cases by immigration.

    A bit off topic now, but some people use this as an example to show that multiculturalism doesn't work. And, in a sense, it doesn't in the long run, since usually one culture eventually gain prominence over others. However, I see multiculturalism as a useful concept in an interconnected world. It all comes down to respect or, at least, tolerance for other cultures.

    So, what do you want to do? You talk as if different cultures are somehow perpetually at war.

    I see culture as something complex, something that is naturally in competition with other cultures, but paradoxically can co-exist with them, and something that changes. That people dislike change in culture is understandable, but stopping change would only result in change, and in the end you can't please everybody.

    You say you dislike foreigners holding "Rasputin-like power" over you. What about if it's people of your culture and not foreigners? Natives or foreigners, it all come down to a totalitarian society.

    Maybe you should start looking into (dare I say it) multiculturalism. If everyone is serious about multiculturalism and what's it's about (tolerance and co-existence) then a scenario like the one you describe would not happen.

    You are being unnecessarily extreme. Wiping out whole cultures in a short period of time is not possible, except via nuclear holocaust or wholesale genocide. And just because you live in a place where another culture is dominant doesn't necessarily make your life hell.
     
  4. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    nothing to add except for:

    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  5. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    you said:

    arabs are not north africans, they are from the arabian peninsula, which is part of asia.
     
  6. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Paranoid much?

    How exactly would foreign people rule you, if they moved into your neighbourhood? There are people living in your neighbourhood now (I would imagine), do they rule over you?
     
  7. aryann

    aryann Warlord

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    All the migrations you mentioned didn't wipe out the culture of the people they moved to. They may have dominated certain areas but they didn't wipe out the victim countries culture, they had something to fall back on. Again, I don't really care if the same scenario has happened before, (it hasn't, else I wouldn't be here,) but what is happening now does not benifit cultural diversity. In Britain, we let a microscopic amount of foreign peoples in and suddenly it's fine that their native lands are still wildly exploited by us.

    I have considered colonisation which is why I said existing infrasturcture.

    Forgetting history or anything else, why is it fair or right that the people that built both the countries I am from, are forced to make the unfortunate compromise of voting for either a mainstream left-wing party, with (in principal,) an agreeable economic outlook but a suicidal social one, or a more right-wing leaning (yet centralised,) party, professing to have a better social outlook but a rubbish economic one?

    "You say you dislike foreigners holding "Rasputin-like power" over you. What about if it's people of your culture and not foreigners?"
    -Jews look out for Jews and have disproportionate control. The powerful people over here don't have a seperate and foreign agenda, they're just greedy and look out for themselves.

    "You are being unnecessarily extreme. Wiping out whole cultures in a short period of time is not possible, except via nuclear holocaust or wholesale genocide. And just because you live in a place where another culture is dominant doesn't necessarily make your life hell"

    Like I said, a constant and heavy drip of migrants may aswell be wiping us out overnight, there is no middle ground. I live in a place where my culture is and always has been dominant (as far as anyone can remember,) and my life is just fine, I'd like to keep both these things this way.

     
  8. aryann

    aryann Warlord

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    In my neighbourhood someone can have an affair and not be stoned to death for it. This will soon be the case if things keep going as they are. I live in a democracy, as soon as 51% of another group are a majority, I am at their mercy, if they want me to convert to Islam by force in my own country, they can, I'm not saying they would, it's the principal.

    Again. Would it benifit cultural diversity if we made Arabs a minority in their own country? They're richer than over here, they're culturaly, historicaly and geographicaly (and therefore practicaly) closer, so why not target them?

    Past migrations to existing infrastructure were mainly to neighbouring and closely related nations, moreso than the Congo and Belgium for example.
     
  9. aryann

    aryann Warlord

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    Everyone has had their moment in the sun, (except for Africa not counting the north if we're honest,) every civilization has murdered and killed and invaded if the oppurtunity arises and of course it isn't right. Europeans repelled the Arabs from their lands and had a large army left over at their disposal, what civilization has ever been in that situation and not exploited it that has lived to tell the tale?

    That's what I originaly said. I later clarified a little more, if I was not clear then I apologise but I didn't mean the north because people from their aren't of the same racial stock as elsewhere, not now or even historicaly.

     
  10. Knight-Dragon

    Knight-Dragon Unhidden Dragon Retired Moderator

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    Hijacked thread closed.
     
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