The Deity Challenge Line-up #33 - Songhai

a Liberty-Piety strat is going to be a good challenge on a Medium difficulty map... The way this is going a Medium-Hard label might be more appropriate here

You have just dampened my enthusiasm for a fourth run at this map...

One Natural Wonder was moved to make the start a little worse...

Interesting then...
Spoiler :
the starting dirt had two NW nearby! That seems pretty rare to me. I also thought Venice was very lucky to spawn with one hex of GBR workable. In my game, Germany had him completely surrounded. Still, Venice was doing okay until the Citadel bombs started...

I also want to say how much I love having Kilimanjaro accessible!
Thanks for the map!

As for this game after my bribed civs made peace with [snip] and [snip] they both DoW me and I kept fighting for 20 turns or so but eventually lost my southern and northern city.

With all my attempts at this map, the neighbors will DOW on the same turn. No amounts of shenanigans on my part could break them up. So I conclude they have a deal going. I guess I could try DoWing one or the other first, then sign defensive pact to get some help? I like consentient's recommendation to bribe one to attack the other, and I did think of that on my own, but I don't think I was trying that early enough in the game.
 
@beetle
Spoiler :

You got it. The GBR was initially in the sea to the North. Leaving it there makes One with Nature too powerful (for a non-Easy game).

And you should still try that Piety hybrid. Those Mud Pyramids need to be used!
 
Well, 60ish turns in and I'm already kind of disliking it, gonna restart. Maybe just because when it's the Songhai, it's always personal :lol:
 
T328 CV

Thanks for the map, I'll go bite my pillow and cry now... This was exhausting!!

Spoiler :

I'm too tired to do a full write-up here. I continued from where I posted at T9x after taking York and London, and after I hit education I chose to try for a culture victory. I should've gone SV... I think an SV with that foundation would've been "easy" enough to do, but the hammer-heavy CV was not. Since I didn't have time to do much else than concentrate on the VC, I spent most of my gold throughout the game keeping my enemies at war and staying happy, as well as taking huge loans for whatever I needed at the time. Several AI's were disgruntled with me for different parts of the game, but in the end, my pants survived unstained. My endgame was probably quite sloppy, but it was very difficult to make the right decisions at the right times in the complicated and everchanging international politics in this game. Austria ended up being the biggest problem for the CV (I nuked her in the end just because she was being such a b****), but I ended up victorious, and I'm very happy about that.

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T172 possible postpone/possible quit.

Spoiler :
I opened 2 city honour and it was going well at first. London fell to an xbow rush on T117 and Attila DOW'd me shortly after so I went for him next; though the war was long and drawn out it brought in some nice gold. I've very recently taken his cap with super promoted gatlings and am now stuck.

Morocco is the tech/wonder runaway and has 5-6% on me because 2 cities (London still sucks science-wise) just aren't producing the science I need. I'll get another GS on turn 187, but even that might not unlock Dynamite. I have saved up 4000 gold but have little to spend it on, though maybe buying Cav/Cannons would be enough.

I'm going to try 3 city Tradition/Commerce, something I've never done before. I'll get it to about the same point in the game and choose which one to continue.
 
Well reloading back a bit earlier and changing some strategy has helped enormously.

I'm at Turn 124 now. Ok capital is a bit low on population, beakers aren't that high and I'm still a way to get to Education but but but things are looking promising.

Firstly - This time Firstly I put a policy in Citizenship before than Piety opener & Organized Religion. I realized that I had shrines in all my early cities and I was still about 16 turns from Philosophy so I couldn't build Mud Mosque's any quicker so that was really an ineffective use of a policy at that time. Keeping initial cities closer together and getting early roads going has helped things immensely.

Secondly- Taking advice from others here and utilising the benefit of the faster worker speed + pyramids I chopped all the citrus into plantations around my capital. Yeah I sacrificed a bit of culture (from Sacred Path -1 culture per jungle) but it seemed to pay off in happiness (trading luxuries and extra gpt).

Thirdly - I only built 5 cities pre-NC. I think is about the right number on Liberty. Any more and it just gets too hard to build so many libraries quickly and the NC cost goes up. Now I can plant lots of cities.

Fourth - I was able to build Oracle so yay extra policy and culture. Had a Golden Age here to speed things up :)

Fifth - I beelined Metal Casting and bought a Workshop in my capital to get an Engineer. As the Pyramids had given me about 60 points already this was quite quick. Now convenience has it that I finished Liberty on the same turn I popped the Engineer so that's 2 Great People in 1 turn & 2 Golden Ages close together. So my thoughts about delaying Representation until you have your first Golden Age & if possible Great Person makes the Liberty finisher much stronger imo :king:

Sixth - I burned the Engineer on Machu Picchu - This is an excellent Wonder and will help overcome one difficulty of playing wide which is gold shortage. I missed it last time because I didn't beeline Metal Casting.

Seventh - More experimentally I enhanced my religion taking Holy Warriors. I was originally thinking of 'Feed the World' since the Capital needs some more food. But since the AI to the South Attila is crowding me with cities I think it would be interesting to faithbuy a an army and steamroll him for the triple gold bonus :D
I think this is a valuable belief for this sorta civ because you have many mediocre cities you just can't spare the production on building units as you really need to focus on things like universities etc to keep up with the AI. So it can really be seen as a significant productivity bonus for your empire.

Eighth - Building my early army (ignoring the normal build order of Shrine/Monument) and focusing on units like warriors & archers has paid off. I have a small but well promoted army now that is holding off Austria in the West and is ready to respond to Attila if he attacks. England hates me but with so much faith coming in if I need a 3rd army to fend her off I should be able to handle that easily now.

Spoiler :


 
Well that didn't take too long to heat up. Now it's turn 132 I just planted another city so 7 in total and I got a double DoW from England & Huns. So with Austria that is war on 3 fronts now...
Attila seems to think I'm building cities too aggressively but he has 8 cities! Hypocritical bastard!


So as you can see there's a few fires to put out.

Spoiler :
 
Wow what happened to the AI tech pace? War with you must be exhausting their resources. No renaissance units anywhere on screen! :D
 
I played this out to t150

Spoiler :

After the 1st English war I spent considerable resources on Bribes.

Austria -> England
Attila -> Bismarck
Ahmed -> England

Built the Sistine and LtoP, but was happiness constrained for some crucial growth phases. I think CV, SV, Domination are all possible here. First in Science and only 10 food behind Ahmed. I decided to not found my own religion and instead piggyback on the AI's spread.

Bad luck with Spies -> nothing except a failed tech steal.

Morocco and the Huns have built annoying cities that I might want to remove.


 
25 pop capital is pretty good for T150 on Liberty. Looks like you can do something really special.
 
@consentient

Tradition in this game :)
Spoiler :

As you and others have shown there nothing wrong with Liberty here either.
 
Oh, my bad. Well it's still decent growth :)
 
Ugh, finally lost the SV on turn 379. I was still 20 turns away from launch myself. I have no idea why production, science, culture -- everything was slow. I was also the only to put Tombouctu on the coast, and people did not jump on the Wine like I did.
 
first ~ T290 turns up .. Liberty piety .. Took 2 reloads on top of the previous restarts .

7 city liberty/piety glory of god late-game domination .

Spoiler :
first reload England makes peace with Austria and double DOWs with huns during AI turn ( "no advance warning" )
second reload - I missed huns making peace with AI. He DOWed me next
Next episode (which is not finished up yet) has at least another reload - again I missed the huns making peace in the turn report..




playlist
 
Wow what happened to the AI tech pace? War with you must be exhausting their resources. No renaissance units anywhere on screen! :D

Yeah well every AI except Venice has been at war at some stage. No AI has any DoF with another AI.

Earlier on Austria asked me to go to war with Morocco (which I agreed to because I knew if they didn't it would be me). Austria also had a war with England.

Morocco was friends with India but I bribed Morocco to DoW India so with a backstab those 2 won't be friends anytime soon. India is down to 2 cities so that stops those 2 civs having Research Agreements so it helps slow the AI tech progression :lol:

Huns attacked and burned a German city. They even gave me a way out asking me to DoW with them against Germany a second time but I don't want the Huns to annihilate Germany as that could backfire on me later on. So with all that there has been a lot of war

On the home front though things are not so good. I was a bit too cocky and should have had a scout watching England as I completely underestimated the size of their attack. I already killed 2 English trebuchets.

I had to quickly build walls on the frontier cities and switch other cities to military production. Honestly though Holy Warriors has saved me. I was able to quickly buy horsemen and rush them to the front to block AI siege units from completely wasting my cities so that religious belief has been a savior! My spy stole Machinery so now I have 3 crossbowmen to slow the AI until reinforcements arrive. Only problem is Morocco caught me spying so now they're angry at me too so that's 4 civ's that I've managed to piss off so far.

Spoiler :

 
finally started the war ~T250 :( (I've have had games where I've gotten stealth faster than T250 and stealth bombers can clear the map faster than modern armor) with modern armor (and some bombers, AA guns and battleships for support. Lets see how long it takes to roll over the map.. Might be a bit since I don't have a lot of happiness reserve ).. Not enough $ to start rolling in 2 directions but perhaps burning down some cities might yield enough to start army number 2 ..
Episode 3 will have all the juicy modern armor action .

EDIT T275 Domination win
- took the honor-less modern armor 25 turns to clear the map (Songhai UA helped a ton since I was for most of the 25 turns at negative GPT) .My first ever modern armor map clear .. Think it could work nice with honor with the science civs :) ..

Spoiler :


videos up hopefully within 24 hours ..
 
So Modern Armor rush is basically getting to Modern Armor and steamrolling the AI's? Does it have bonus vs cities? I think I have never built this unit, lol.
 
So Modern Armor rush is basically getting to Modern Armor and steamrolling the AI's? Does it have bonus vs cities? I think I have never built this unit, lol.

all armor units can be used similarly landship/tank/modern armor - swarm the AI making huge :c5gold: of pillaging (planes cannot do), killing AI units (if honor finisher) and capturing cities (even better for Songhai) .. Which one I would use depends on a balance between my tech rate, social policies & infrastructure finished or not in my cities , and gold pile reserve..

This type of play depends on quite a few autocracy policies ( core are the rush buy discount & lighting warfare, the XP building happy often a necessity, Clausewitz' legacy also very nice to get ), mercantilism in commerce and big ben .. Plus the gold buildings (stock exchanges in every city, all XP buildings in all cities, very often castles in every cities for Neuschwanstein, opera houses for hermitage if culture deficit(poor culture CS play/social policy detours), public schools if tech deficit, happy buildings if happy deficit, factories, religious buildings if piety play .. ) .

This game my growth was pretty poor (many cities - poor map (luxuries + strategic wise) - lots of unhappy periods due to not having enough gold to constantly bribe neighbors and ally enough city states and buy critical buildings, Research Agreements and buy luxuries at triple price ). Thus production was low - thus took me a long time to put all the "infrastructure" (buildings, culture and gold pile) in place. By that time I've managed to reach modern armor and used it to steamroll the map ..

I think all armor units have some sort of bonus vs cities ("ignore defensive structures" - citadel/fort ?). They don't have penalty vs cities.. And they can (move in,) attack city, (move to pillage heal) (and even be able to attack again if blitz) .. Only ways to increase their strength vs cities are great generals (Chinese one are the best) , discipline (strong honor bonus for tanks), statue of zeus (honor wonder) and Clausewitz' legacy (autocracy lvl 3) , golden age for Persians .. Morale promotion (heroic epic national wonder) and lightning warfare (autocracy lvl 2) don't work vs cities.. When you get all those bonuses (and they each add a lot due to the big base unit strength ) tanks can melt even very high defense cities .. When most of this bonuses are missing or not enough critical mass of tanks you can use them as meat shields to block enemy units while you get artillery/bombers/ranged ships in rage to do the damage to the cities .

Using modern armor to do it is not very common since usually I can get the pre-requisites in place by the time I reach combustion (tank) ..

There is also a bug involving tanks - crossing rivers will end movement as per usual - attacking over rivers will not.. It might be a consequence of "can move after attacking", I'm not sure about the cause - but it sure helps when attacking cities from all sides ..
 
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