The early religions

[Iceciro]

It's actually eye-opening how much of a change setting up "soft-beelines" like nottque has done with his minor leaders mod, can change the AI from a whimpering fool into an actual player challenge. As far as I'd expect an AI to be able to, they can actually USE magic - if they research it. They can actually do well with their correct troops - when they research them. If they pick up the needed economic techs they will flourish a lot more rapidly than they do in the base game. One of the vital things soft-beelines can do is have things like the Cabalim have a chance to found CoE, the Lanun usually nabbing OO... part of the problem in the core is that the AIs have no soft/hard beelines for any other religion at all, and usually they'll stick with whatever religion they find first.

 

[JonathanStrange]

The early founding of a religion, like FoL by the Ljosalfars, has a relatively steep cost both in and in the opportunity cost of not developing military and economic techs. The Elves if they're founding FoL quickly are also depending on scouts, warriors, and hunters for quite some time as well as not generally getting Mining, Education (unless they take a detour), etc.

That's something that should not be neglected. Later religions are founded by civilizations with an arsenal of offensive and defensive troops; the early FoL founder is gambling that his/her civ can found a religion that gives some prancing fauns and a 1 in 20 treant defender, only to be confronted with a "what now?" feeling: no real offensive units, few ancient forests, and a hope that tthe Elves are too far away to be bothered with.

I've played many a Deity level game with the Ljos struggling to fend off axemen, horsemen, swordsmen, assassins with Elf warriors, archers, and a faun or two: FoL isn't that toxic. When I see Ashen Veil founded and converted to by all the evil civs and eventually the neutrals, while I hang onto the last wooded lands, I can hardly see what good it did to found FoL early.

Why don't we just have one freakin' Ashen Veil religion so as not to offend anyone?

 

[Lone Wolf]

The Ljos AI in my games is often doing quite well. And even they are conquered, the conqueror adopts FoL himself and becomes the new Ljos in regards to that religion.

I've played many a Deity level game with the Ljos struggling to fend off axemen, horsemen, swordsmen, assassins with Elf warriors, archers, and a faun or two: FoL isn't that toxic.

We're mostly talking about the AI Ljos, not the human ones. Of course, if we gave the Ljos AI Deity maluses in each game, the spread of FoL would be somewhat reduced. But I don't think that's the optimal solution, lol.

 

[dyvim]

Is it possible to define multiple "beelines" for a Civ ?
Or to define a "beeline" for a Leader?

 

[smana]

Empyrian, and Esus could be neutral, meaning they do not change alignments at all, but REVERSE them to the leaderspecific startup.

:/

No, the Empyrian is a 'good' religion and Esus is a 'Bad religion so there should be some alignment distinction

 

[nzk13]

I don't see it as a problem in my games. FoL and RoK don't really dominate, because I disrupt it if it looks like it's going to be that way.

 

[cypher132]

I've found that the Elohim stubbornly cling to RoK. Even if 3 of 5 cities have RoK, but all 5 had Order, they'll stick with RoK. Even to the brink of death they hold this religion. It's irritating.

 

[cain3456]

Standard speed, playing the Grigori/Cassiel. My opponents are:

Goods: Ljo/Aeryndl(?), Kurios/Cardith, Luchuirp/Beeri
Neutrals: Khazads/Kyr, Sidar/Sandalphon, Amurites/Valledia
Evils: Clan/Jonas, Doviello/Charadon, Svarts/Viconia

The Ljos have some good land, expand and spread FoL everywhere. Kyr founds Runes and is slower to spread it. Amurites found Empyrean, keep switching between it and FoL. Kurios found Order but don't do anything with it. Someone else founded OO. Team evil starts in crappy land and gets wiped off the planet, along with Amurites because they kept wanting my land.

So far so usual, right? Then the Khazads found CoE, adopt Undercouncil and eventually build Nox Noctis. I find it surprising that the Runes founders would switch to CoE so readily. Since they are on my border, I'll be watching them.

And the Grigori now own the Empyrean holy city.

 

[ryansee]

Epic necro

 

[A Moon]

Epic necro

Fft. Compared to some of the stuff .Arawyn. has been up to, 8 months is more like tying a string round a corpse's foot, wiggling it a bit, and making spooky noises.

 

[ryansee]

I rly wanna necro that rp thread ...

 

[Breunor]

Standard speed, playing the Grigori/Cassiel. My opponents are:

Goods: Ljo/Aeryndl(?), Kurios/Cardith, Luchuirp/Beeri
Neutrals: Khazads/Kyr, Sidar/Sandalphon, Amurites/Valledia
Evils: Clan/Jonas, Doviello/Charadon, Svarts/Viconia

The Ljos have some good land, expand and spread FoL everywhere. Kyr founds Runes and is slower to spread it. Amurites found Empyrean, keep switching between it and FoL. Kurios found Order but don't do anything with it. Someone else founded OO. Team evil starts in crappy land and gets wiped off the planet, along with Amurites because they kept wanting my land.

So far so usual, right? Then the Khazads found CoE, adopt Undercouncil and eventually build Nox Noctis. I find it surprising that the Runes founders would switch to CoE so readily. Since they are on my border, I'll be watching them.

And the Grigori now own the Empyrean holy city.

There are some problems witht he AI switching religions too often currently.

Best wishes,

Breunor