The Enlightenment Era

[SonofaRose]

The new units are cool and also fill the gap nicely between many units, making the progression from Musketmen to a Great War Infantry feel more like a natural progress

But Uhlans are somewhat puzzling, they are the upgrade unit for Lancers, but have the exact same stats(they still look nice), but when you have Winged Hussars, wouldn't you be actually downgrading when converting to them? Same goes for Hakkapeliitta and Sipahi. Maybe they could have 28 combat strength, so they would allow others than Poland to get the more powerful version of the Lancer, but later and with no flashy extra promotion!

 

[Pouakai]

I believe they've been updated to 34 combat strength with v3, though I'll need to double check the exact figure

 

[SonofaRose]

I believe they've been updated to 34 combat strength with v3, though I'll need to double check the exact figure

Oh OK, I double checked it twice myself, since it indeed seemed very improbable that I alone caught that Gotta get myself up to date I guess.

 

[local_hero]

Sorry if this has been posted:

Not a bug per se. But my games actually go quicker or equally quick as before when I play with EE. I don't know if you have adapted the cost from the base technologies or if the Academy just makes that much of a difference. I progress through the Industrial to Information era ridiculously quick, researching techs in 2-5 turns.

Don't know how one would balance this, but perhaps the Academy is too good?

 

[Eveljin]

So janboruta how did your game go? Do you have the warmongering penalty or is this a bug on my site? This mod is really cool but without the warmongering penalty the ai is so passive the game gets pretty boring

 

[Firebug]

The Enlightenment Era technologies are available to research from turn 1 but take hundreds of turns. Some of them also have no lines connecting to previous technologies.
Is anyone else getting this? if not, i'll check for clashes on my end.

 

[janboruta]

So janboruta how did your game go? Do you have the warmongering penalty or is this a bug on my site? This mod is really cool but without the warmongering penalty the ai is so passive the game gets pretty boring

My games with EE are normal - everybody hates everybody. Admittedly, warmonger penalties did not show up in the diplomatic tooltips, but denouncements and wars were constant - there was no difference between that and a normal game. I should mention I am using the Community Patch, which makes adjustments to warmonger penalties, but it did not make the AI passive - quite the contrary, everyone was as warlike as usual.

The Enlightenment Era technologies are available to research from turn 1 but take hundreds of turns. Some of them also have no lines connecting to previous technologies.
Is anyone else getting this? if not, i'll check for clashes on my end.

I do not have such an issue - all is working as inteded. Mods that alter the tech tree beyond Industrial era are bound to conflict with EE.

Not a bug per se. But my games actually go quicker or equally quick as before when I play with EE. I don't know if you have adapted the cost from the base technologies or if the Academy just makes that much of a difference. I progress through the Industrial to Information era ridiculously quick, researching techs in 2-5 turns.

Don't know how one would balance this, but perhaps the Academy is too good?

AFAIK, technology costs were rebalanced only slightly to accomodate the new Era. At the very least, Industrial tech costs should not be cheaper than before. It might as well be the issue with balancing the Academy (and thus it could be slightly nerfed, but - really - a single University provides the Science modifier with twice the power + it has specialist slots), but on the other hand 5 turns of research per tech is commonplace when you play on Standard speed. That is why I switched to Epic.

 

[LeeS]

That is why I switched to Epic.

And why when I play for enjoyment instead of for finding mod-issues like balance and such, I run code that adds about 50% to science costs. I want the feel of every era without having to slog through a billion turns. But even with 50% bump on standard speed, Industrial and later techs zip by in 5- turns very commonly. Because by then you've infrastructured up your cities and their map-plots to the point where your 'core' cities are each a productive powerhouse.

@Firebug
You are definitely having a mod-clash if you are seeing this because EE is not doing this for me.

There are 1+ tech-tree or era-changing mods available on Steam that are both very popular and horribly-coded so far as compatibility with other mods is concerned. All it takes is for one mod to have essentially 'hard-coded' changes to era XML-names, tech XML-names, or ID #s of the eras or the techs and you would get what you have. Even mods that are 'properly' coded to give max compatibility to other mods are likely going to insurrmountably clash with EE and cause bizarre behaviors if they are also editing or adjusting tech placements at the end of Renaissance or the beginning of Industrial.

Even my little changes to the Tech Tree that come from my Era Buildings mod caused a Tech Tree Failure before I spotted the error in my SQL code for compatibility to EE.

 

[SamuraiOutcast]

Played through 200 Turns into the Enlightenment Without error or crash. And I'm using a fairly substantial mod-list. Thanks for the great mod!

 

[NN23]

is EE compatible with CBP?

 

[janboruta]

No, it won't be fully compatible without a dedicated patch. Both EE and CBP add units and buildings that might be conceptually similar, and CBP bases those changes on the vanilla tech tree. EE is compatible with the base Community Patch though.

 

[NN23]

Is there a patch on the line? And while where on the issue of compatibility, is CCC compatible with CBP?

 

[Eveljin]

So in my last game, I killed 4 city state in a row Ai did not even care xD And to make it even better I went to war, took three cities (not capital) the round after I made peace, he wants to be my friend. The game becomes comically without warmonger penalty. hope you can identify the problem Pouakai. Despite this, the game was really fun show how well done the mod is. and no janboruta I do not use CP. I am also impressed that with the historical game speed, I have not had a single crash

 

[LeeS]

I don't mean to stir up the nest with a stick, but based on post # 226 were you going to redraft again re the naval techs?

I ask because I would like to start trying to figure out where and how I need to structure a more seamless transition through the Enlightenment Era when a player is also using Era Buildings, and I'd rather not do so if a supplemental alteration is anywhere near in the works.

I spelled everything out long-hand because if we mod-folk keep using these acronyms this whole forum is going to be nothing but incomprehensible statements such as:

I did not EE with CPB or ExCe, as I only wanted to CP and EUI when I had Merc and P&P, but EB is not showing on my EML I.G., nor is C&C

 

[janboruta]

There will be some minor adjustments, namely removal of Piracy and moving it into an optional modmod. This would subsequently mean making Warships - being moved onto the spot of Navigation - require Imperialism, and Architecture requiring Astronomy (although I think it's already like that).

Otherwise we have some plans to flesh out the naval part of the tech tree, probably in a separate modmod, but without new buildings. I doubt any more major changes will be done. In any case, redesigning the tree just to accomodate to "realism" between two single techs in the entire mod is out of the question.

 

[LeeS]

Thanks Jan. That lets me know what I need to try to work to.

Two BTW's

1. Since we are both using an in-game name of 'Salon' for a sciency building, any suggestions as to what I could rename my 'Salon' to so there will not be user-confusion between the two 'Salons' ?
   • It ought to create even more fun because my version of the 'Salon' becomes available to build when the player enters the Renaissance Era and would no longer be available to build when the player would enter your Enlightenment Era
   • Imagine the fun and bizarro comments we will each be getting on our respective mod descriptions / modpages
   Game-code-wise there will be no conflict since I am using BUILDING_LRS_SCIENCE3 in XML
2. I notice you have the Gunsmith adding production modifier to Gunpowder Combat-class units.
   • Not sure if you remembered that UNITCOMBAT_GUN also applies to

     UNIT_MOBILE_SAM
     UNIT_ANTI_AIRCRAFT_GUN
     UNIT_ANTI_TANK_GUN
     UNIT_MECHANIZED_INFANTRY
     UNIT_PARATROOPER
     UNIT_XCOM_SQUAD

     Infantry, Great War Infantry, Marines, perhaps even Paratrooper make a certain amount of sense for a 'Gunsmith', but not sure if you'd given thought to or even realised the unitcombat type for the others was the same.
   • There is table Unit_ProductionModifierBuildings but it is not as easy to deal with since every unit to be affected has to be listed individually, and then you'd be into the can-of-worms with additional civs wanting to insert themselves into the Enlightenment Era with unique gunpowder-type units
   • Just thought I'd mention it in case the 'extra' unit types getting the benefit of the 'Gunsmith' was not something you had considered. Otherwise, please feel free to ignore this whole comment re the 'Gunsmith'. Or you can tell me to just go and AssignStartingPlots.lua

 

[Natan35]

Okay, after reaching the industrial era with this mod, I have a few suggestions:

1. Increase the cost of industrial era techs. The amount of science you'll receive from public schools and academies is huge, enough for me to research industrialisation in 5 turns.
2. There is no balance between the salon and the academy: By the time I could build these two, my cities (other than my capital) were producing 30+ science and 6-8 culture each with no modifiers. I think you should make the salon increase culture from specialists to balance the two...
3. Make the cloth mill purely resource based. Plantations already provide extra gold with that mod, so a building making them yield production would be nice.
4. Make rationalism available at the start of the enlightenment era, as opposed to renaissance. Its just too easy otherwise.

 

[Toggaf]

If we have UUs that normally upgrade into a unit that would be *after* an Enlightenment Era unit in vanilla, will we have to tinker with the files a bit to make sure it doesn't jump over and skip over the new added Enlightenment Era unit inbetween?

 

[Pouakai]

Yeah, you'll need to change the Unit_ClassUpgrades table to the corresponding EE unit

 

[Toggaf]

Oof, that sounds fun. I'm assuming though that most major civ authors have taken care of this already maybe?