The European Project: the future of the EU.

[Akka]

I know. That's why it's only one of the multiple possibilities I talked about. You're being purposely contrarian here.
The investment can take any form, and I agree that it might be more useful to buy AA systems for Ukraine than to buy more tank in Brussels. But that's irrelevant to the main point : in all case, it's about spending money for something that will help EU defense, and about everyone spending at least 2 % of their GNP. And the question is why you would take offense at this.

 

[Samson]

If we are preparing for a Ukraine style war across Europe it seems to me the best way to spend money would be to build artillery shell, missile and drone factories. Belgium seems well positioned to spend money on that if they wanted to, and Germany perhaps even better with all the VW factories that are closing.

 

[Snowygerry]

Because for a small country, the 2 % is at the same time too much (for running costs) and too little, for investment in expensive weapon systems that should be spread over decades not attributed to single year to meet an imaginary target.

But as seen above we will meet your 2% by june, no prob, hope that solves the problems in Eastern Europe

 

[Snowygerry]

If we are preparing for a Ukraine style war across Europe it seems to me the best way to spend money would be to build artillery shell, missile and drone factories. Belgium seems well positioned to spend money on that if they wanted to, and Germany perhaps even better with all the VW factories that are closing.

Yeah we specialize in underwater drones apparently, which seems appropriate given our location..

Belgian and Dutch navies invest 60m euros in underwater drones to disarm mines

The Belgian and Dutch navies have ordered nearly 60 million euros worth of underwater drones from French group Exail Technologies, L'Echo reports...

www.belganewsagency.eu

The small underwater robots will be mass-produced at the drone assembly site in Ostend, which opened in 2022. The order includes the supply of drones and spare parts, as well as maintenance.

Ukrainian soldiers awarded certificates after training in Belgian navy
Defence minister Ludivine Dedonder presented certificates to 10 Ukrainian soldiers who will complete their training at the Naval Academy in Ostend...

Converting car factories raises some obvious problems too :

'The first place people will bomb': Arms factory in Forest a bad idea, says mayor

The Mayor of Forest warns that the idea would not benefit Brussels residents, as military factories and industrial sites are often prime targets.

www.brusselstimes.com

The Mayor of Forest, Charles Spapens (PS), has declared that converting the Audi Brussels plant into a weapons factory is "not a good idea".

 

[r16]

what's the problem here ? Just the very same thing since '22 . If there is a mortal threat those facing the risk should pay accordingly and if need be die while the rest should enjoy the good life . Wasn't the good life enjoyed ? A strict percentage to spend hurts the good life ; if those at risk spend 5% and the ones 1% , the difference will be a higher quality of life for those who spend less and produce the stuff to sell to the high spenders .

 

[Verbose]

You cannot just increase the size of a standing army at will, first people need to volunteer, and then they need a specific talent for actually fighting.

Er... no. Conscription. Might not be a fashionable, much less popular idea, but it is what's needed. "Talent" my aunt banana – training is what's needed.

But, yeah, sure... Belgium seems still very... remote... from the new realities of Europe.

 

[Snowygerry]

Obviously yes, when Belgium was the focal point European politics in 1914 we had an army of 400.000 and defence spending was probably in double digits, location matters in war.

But sending conscripts 3000 km away to fight will never happen, the militia will be called up when the enemy is in Germany or France :

Belgian Forces in Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

At its height, 40,000 Belgian soldiers were stationed in Germany and a total of 70,000 Belgian nationals lived in the Belgian sector.At the end of the Cold War in November 1989, there were still 24,000 soldiers deployed in West Germany. A large number of those who served were conscripts deployed to the force as part of their national service. The large number of Belgian citizens, both soldiers and their families, led the Belgian sector to be nicknamed the "tenth province" (dixième province) of Belgium.

 

[Verbose]

If we are preparing for a Ukraine style war across Europe it seems to me the best way to spend money would be to build artillery shell, missile and drone factories. Belgium seems well positioned to spend money on that if they wanted to, and Germany perhaps even better with all the VW factories that are closing.

No we should not. That is likely also a fallacy.

The Ukranian war has played out in the particular way it has due to some also particular modalities. One of them is the lack of western style air power. We might not want to lean all on "the flying artillery" to do all the heavy lifting. But if it Russia attacking (even with a puppeted subject Ukranian army to bolster it, worst case), it will not by some kind of necessity play out just like the Ukraine war. What is crucial in Ukraine now, might not be. In particular if we plan and prepare to not have to fight Russia on Russia's terms. (Bad idea generally.)

We should not let the Russians dig in and make a static frontline war of it. And we do not by necessity have to make it so. Much as the Russians might be more comfortable with it.

 

[Verbose]

Because for a small country, the 2 % is at the same time too much (for running costs) and too little, for investment in expensive weapon systems that should be spread over decades not attributed to single year to meet an imaginary target.

But as seen above we will meet your 2% by june, no prob, hope that solves the problems in Eastern Europe

How many mechanized-or-similar brigades can Belgium field at the mo? Current plans for expansion in what time frame?

That is literally the kind of military formations that are needed to meet, engage, and defeat an attacking Russia, should that come to pass.

 

[Snowygerry]

With full conscription, a corps sized force, for decades, see above. On the condition that the fight is somewhere near.

We cannot have a "10th province" on the Dnjepr can we.

 

[Verbose]

With full conscription, a corps sized force, for decades, see above. On the condition that the fight is somewhere near.

We cannot have a "10th province" on the Dnjepr can we.

But a "Bruxelles oblast"?

 

[Snowygerry]

We’ll tackle them as they cross the Rhine.

 

[AdrienIer]

French Guyana, which is technically part of France proper and not a colony.

French Guyana is not the westernmost point of France. French Antilles are further west, and French Polynesia is among the westernmost places on earth (placing the limit at the day-change line).

 

[Verbose]

We’ll tackle them as they cross the Rhine.

And it's the "Every man for himself attitude" that is going to do us in...

It's going to be too late, if it goes all the way to that.

 

[Snowygerry]

Well it’s not like we can’t do anything, Belgian navy and airforce are already in the Baltic, and should a multinational force materialize it will no doubt have a Belgian component, but it will be in the order of magnitude of Korea or Yugoslavia, not Germany. And will be volunteers, not conscripts.

 

[Kyriakos]

French Guyana is not the westernmost point of France. French Antilles are further west, and French Polynesia is among the westernmost places on earth (placing the limit at the day-change line).

France is the empire where the sun never sets? ^^

 

[AdrienIer]

Literally the country with the most time zones in the world yes !

 

[Kyriakos]

Not really about the Eu (can be partly about it in the future, due to covering market needs), but this country remains in it, so on-topic:
US energy giant Chevron will begin research in the Greek economic zone (area where the zone was delineated with Egypt) south of Crete- for gas and oil.
Previously there was (among others) French interest (Total), but US is a considerable upgrade due to its military.

 

[SemiLazyGamer]

Breaking: Marine le Pen and 8 other French far-right leaders have been found guilty of embezzling EU Parliament funds.

Marine Le Pen found guilty of embezzlement

The French far-right icon will be sentenced later Monday.

www.politico.eu

 

[Akka]

Paint me (un)surprised. The FN/RN has always been a pretty unscrupulous bunch, and in the most typical fashion, the ones who complain the most about supposed EU corruption tends to be the ones most commonly found being guilty of it. Maybe because a thief thinks everyone steals.