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The Future of CIV III GOTM

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by Più Freddo, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    I also do not think that we should even try to get new beginners into this game. It is not realistic.

    The difficult task is to design spoiler dates or requirements that make discussing the game interesting even if we have one guy going for 100k, one for 20k, two for space, one for Diplo and four for Domination, but two of them failed because time ran out. Also two of the players finished the game on the day it was published, whereas three struggle to meet the deadline at all and one funny guy only started in the last week because wifie decided to go visit her parents.
     
  2. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Here's an idea for a little cohesion without too much compulsion:

    A heptathlon tournament running over the whole year. Not the heptathlon in winning games, of course, but e.g. the sum of the total number of turns. (Average victory date for a heptathlon.) First heptathlon, so to speak.

    We could have a table with the current standing. With eight games we could have one spare for each player.

    One parallel tournament each for PTW and C3C, or we could mix them for more chances and options.
     
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    With "one spare" you mean one bye? And the VCs are not fixed, so everyone can decide for himself, in which game he's going to attempt what VC, right?
     
  4. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    I mean VCs are not fixed. If we have eight games and seven are needed, then the eighth is spare, it can be used for a missing VC.

    Or we can have sixteen games per player, half C3C and half PTW, for more chances. We can weigh the victory dates according to our earlier best dates for each game.

    Or we can have four each of each kind, one game each per quarter, and really only one game to spare for a heptathlon.

    What say you, is this game a HOTY?
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Don't know what a HOTY is, but the Heptathlon idea sounds good to me. 16 games, so that the players, who design some games, also have a chance at competing.
     
  6. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Heptathlon Of The Year
     
  7. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    That sounds like a fun idea. Although I know I would stand no chance of the top spot, it's still a nice way to encourage participation in more of the games, while having flexibility in what each player aims for in each game.
     
  8. Captain_Jack

    Captain_Jack Warlord Supporter

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    I am going to try to be a new player starting with the present game. I think it is due in January 2019, and I can complete it by then.
    In fact, I expect it to be quickly eliminated so I should be able to post sooner. I am getting better though...
     
  9. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    We do compensate slightly and design the games on harder levels to be survivable and winnable also for players who might not always survive a randomly generated Deity or Sid game.
     
  10. Captain_Jack

    Captain_Jack Warlord Supporter

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    I am trying to become a new player in the Civ3 GOTM competition, but I expect to be dead last in the rankings by a country mile. I am finding it quite difficult to download the game; I have trouble getting the exact copy of Civ3 that is needed, I have trouble opening the GOTM after it is downloaded, I have trouble understanding all the acronyms used. I have many troubles...
    I am trying to work it out and Thunderfall has been a big help, but it's too bad that the bar to entry is so high. There might be many other low-level Civ players that would participate if it were easier to join up. I'm sure the obstacles are unavoidable and I'm extraordinarily impressed that there is such a well organized group of players dedicated to such a good but old game.
    Jack
     
  11. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    When I started playing GOTM, I was really bad. After submitting my first effort on the first game (on monarch or maybe regent), I tried the same game over and over, and I never made it past gunpowder in about 10 tries. I thought I'd never be able to win. I have an impressive collection of red ambulances (the award for the lowest scoring loser). Other players were really helpful in teaching me how to play better.

    We are really happy to have you here. Ask about anything - it can seem overwhelming at first, but you'll catch on pretty quickly, at least so far as knowing what people are writing about. Maybe we can come up with a "How to get set up to play GOTM" guide for new players, so as to make it a bit easier on other new folks.

    COTM - the Conquests game of the month - should be playable by pretty much anyone without too much hassle. The only thing that might be an issue is the pediaicons.txt file if the game has Austria in it. GOTM - the Play the World game of the month - is trickier, since modern copies of the game don't have PTW.
     
  12. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    I think the best way to use the friendly Game of the Month (soon Game of the Quarter) competition is to write spoilers detailing not only what you have done, but also why you have done it. Since other players play the same game, you can either simply read their spoilers and compare or hope for (or solicit!) comments on your game. There is also a replay facility allowing you to compare overall development such as city placement and important events between your submitted game and others.

    One more tip is to search the forum for spoilers by SirPleb. He was one of the best players ever and certainly the one who wrote the most instructive spoilers. You can in many cases download the corresponding game and compare notes.

    At the moment, we are playing a Deity game in GOTM and the upcoming game for COTM is at Sid level. These are perhaps not very suitable for beginners, even if we traditionally make difficult games easier (and easy games more difficult) by map design.
     
  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    SirPleb is one of the legendary players, and many strategies and tricks that are today part of every experienced player's arsenal, have been invented by him.

    Another tip I can give you: read the articles in the War Academy: https://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/
    Especially Cracker’s Opening Plays Site. When I first came to this site here in 2007, I spent one or two Sunday afternoons studying this article in detail, and it changed my game forever.
     
  14. Captain_Jack

    Captain_Jack Warlord Supporter

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    I have casually looked at the Cracker's Opening Site pages but not in any detail. I will do so this weekend. Thanks for the tip.
    This will be fun, IF I can get the GOTM eventually opened.
     
  15. bbrady413

    bbrady413 Chieftain

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    I like the idea of less frequent GOTMs. A few years ago, a GOTM for me was no problem. Open up the save and bang it out over the course of a few days. Now I have three kids, and have not nearly as much time. Doing a game lasting 2-3 months sounds more my speed. I also like the idea somebody mentioned about some kind of competition which is a bundle of games released all at once, with discussion threads, and some kind of leaderboard. This way people can participate whenever they feel like it, and don't have as strict a time limit. I know there are times where I won't play for a few months, but then have some free time and have plenty of time to bang out a few games.

    Also, I love the idea of some kind of FAQ/Walkthrough for getting these games setup. If CivAssist 2 could be thrown in there, that would be great. I've personally had a lot of issues getting that program working correctly, and now that I'm used to it, I feel lost without that tool.

    Also, what's everybody's thoughts on just getting rid of PTW in the competition? I feel like Conquests is widely available and easy to use, but getting PTW going is a bit trickier. Plus, I get messed up alternating between the two versions.

    No matter what, I'll always be a Civ 3 player. In my mind, it is a complete game with unlimited possibilities and outcomes, and because of that, it is infinitely replayable. Its like a game of chess- some games are similar, but no two are ever exactly alike. Having other people to discuss it with and compete with (despite me getting a red ambulance if I'm lucky) is invaluable.

    Thanks to everybody for keeping it going all these years.
     
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  16. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    So I finally finished the Sid France game, and I started to think about what victory conditions to pick for each game this year so as to be able to compete in the heptathlon. I ran into some things that are unclear to me.

    The idea is to win once by each victory condition, right? Seven victory conditions means one victory condition is histographic. All histographic games take the same number of turns. Does this mean that all histographic games count the same, or do we want to rank it differently? (Histographic victories are painful; I'd be happy to not include them, but then we have only 6 victory conditions, so not a heptathlon, if anyone cares.)

    When picking a game to play for a histographic victory, I'd like to play on a small map, so as to make it not so tedious, or at least not on a large map. If either we'd always play standard maps or the map size would be listed on the game schedule, it would make choosing which game should be the histographic game much easier.

    In regards to scoring the heptathlon (not counting the histographic victory), I'd like to count up the turns remaining in each game. More turns wins. This way, people who couldn't complete a game could still be in the running - they'd just score a zero for that victory condition. If we don't want to count histographic scores as a yes or not, we could try something like Firaxis score times 0.02 divided by playing level (gives scores of up to about 240 for a great game, which would be in line with the number of turns remaining for other games).

    Anyway, clearly I won't be playing either of the first quarter games out to 2050, as time is too short, but we should discuss how this will work.
     
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  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    My (silent) understanding so far was, that the "Cow Award" would be handled like in the past (standard GOTM Eptathlon): the award simply goes to the game with the highest base score, not necessarily played out to turn 540.
    For my past Eptathlons I never played for a Historic Victory deliberately: the Cow just "happened" as a side effect of a long running Space or 100K game.
    I think no one today really wants to play a milking game to turn 540...
     
    Più Freddo likes this.
  18. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    I sure don't - I've got a histographic game for HOF that I've been working on for ages, and that is plenty for me.

    So for victory condition number 7, we'd pick each person's highest base score and rank them somehow? That would give us only six required victory types - giving more wiggle room for people to design a game or not win as desired, which I approve of.
     
  19. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Sounds like a good idea.
     
  20. Fergei

    Fergei Warlord

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    I use customised settings when I play (main points below):

    - custom difficulty (aimed at players that find Emperor a little bit too easy once they secure a comfortable position in the medieval era. Designed to contain the AI in the early game but make them become more competitive than in Emperor in the mid to late game)
    - lower corruption (the cliff face of extreme corruption does not an entertaining game make in my opinion)
    - lower % winning conditions for Domination (to prevent the slog and give the AI more of a chance in a game when you are doing alright).
    - two new governments (at Monotheism and The Corporation) and an earlier Feudalism government (to make AI and players not just home in on Republic / Communism)
    - softer, but longer Anarchy (to encourage switching governments without penalising Religious Civs)
    - faster, larger boats (to make the AI a more credible threat to rivals on other islands from map-making onwards)
    - 1 defence to Scouts (to empower typically woeful Expansionist Civs)

    I've not used Civ Assist, so I don't know how to make a game eligible for GOTM but if using customised rules would be of interest any admin and they are willing to instruct me how to convert a custom map / save to make it GOTM compliant I'd be happy to devise a game. I fully appreciate why people might want to stick to the default difficulties and/or settings though, so no hard feelings if not.
     

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