The general crapiness of Mumbai, Karachi, São Paulo, Los Angeles, and Lagos

NerfCothons

Warlord
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
289
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Denver, CO
It's been some time since I posted here, but I've spent a lot of my life playing this mod. No other game I've played so effectively captures the atmosphere of actual history, yet still gives you the sense of freedom to guide it as you see fit. You are given the choice to build cities wherever you want, yet the map is so brilliantly designed such that people still end up living where they ought to live. Sadly there are exceptions to this which I would like to illustrate:


Rank Megacity Country Continent Population Annual Growth[citation needed]
1 Tokyo Japan Asia 34,300,000 0.60%
2 Guangzhou China Asia 25,200,000 4.00%
3 Seoul South Korea Asia 25,100,000 1.40%
4 Shanghai China Asia 24,800,000 2.20%
5 Delhi India Asia 23,300,000 4.60%
6 Mumbai India Asia 23,000,000 2.90%
7 Mexico City Mexico North America 22,900,000 2.00%
8 New York City USA North America 22,000,000 0.30%
9 São Paulo Brazil South America 20,900,000 1.40%
10 Manila[21] Philippines Asia 20,300,000 2.50%
11 Jakarta Indonesia Asia 18,900,000 2.00%
12 Los Angeles USA North America 18,100,000 1.10%
13 Karachi Pakistan Asia 17,000,000 4.90%
14 Osaka Japan Asia 16,700,000 0.15%
15 Kolkata India Asia 16,600,000 2.00%
16 Cairo Egypt Africa 15,300,000 2.60%
17 Buenos Aires Argentina South America 14,800,000 1.00%
18 Moscow Russia Europe 14,800,000 0.20%
19 Dhaka Bangladesh Asia 14,000,000 4.10%
20 Beijing China Asia 13,900,000 2.70%
21 Tehran Iran Asia 13,100,000 2.60%
22 Istanbul Turkey Europe & Asia 13,000,000 2.80%
23 London United Kingdom Europe 12,500,000 0.70%
24 Rio de Janeiro Brazil South America 12,500,000 1.00%
25 Lagos Nigeria Africa 12,100,000 3.20%
26 Paris France Europe 10,197,678 1.00%

The above list is copied out of Wikipedia's list of megacities, or metropolitan regions with at least 10 million citizens, and illustrates the largest modern centers of urban and suburban population. While I certainly don't expect that RFC to reflect that list, I would hope that it would reflect the possibility. There are a number of cities in that list that simply are terrible city locations in RFC. The ones I would change are:

China: Wait wait hear me out. Yes China has a ton of resources that make it a fun civ to play. However, China is a country defined both geographically and historically by its three great rivers, all of which are prominently displayed on the RFC map. It is no accident that two of the four largest cities in the world, Guangzhou and Shanghai reside at the deltas of two of those rivers (the Pearl and Yangtze respectively). Guangzhou is doing fine, but Shanghai taps a measly two food resources. I would add a fish a tile or two north of the Yangtze river delta, and move the late spawning Manchurian corn down into the real breadbasket of China.

Mumbai: India has throughout history been a major population center. Mumbai is the sixth on the above list, and yet has zero food resources. It's just hardly worth settling. I would add a fish at the river delta, a new wheat and a new rice within Mumbai's fat cross, and shift the iron one tile west. India in its entirety is so food poor in RFC despite it's enormous population in real life. One could probably throw a couple extra food resources around for good measure.

São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro: Both cities appear on this list, yet between the two we have two food resources and a surprisingly large quantity of marsh. Certainly much of the marsh that lies directly west of São Paulo should be replaced with grassland or jungle. I would also suggest an additional (perhaps late spawning) land food resource for São Paulo and an extra fish for Rio.

Los Angeles: In fact, all of California just seems tiny given its cultural significance. San Francisco works out alright, especially since it's not really a population center like others on this list, yet the existence of San Fran leaves LA with clams, desert rock, some late spawning wine and almost zero arable land tiles. This just doesn't jive. It would be very easy to expand the west coast of the US by another row of arable land tiles, or move the desert back a bit. Maybe a late spawning wheat and a fish to boot.

Karachi: This one is the most bizarre. desert and marsh at the delta of the Indus, one of the cradles of civilization.

Lagos: Those poor Africans. This one's a bit nit picky but I'd throw an extra fish 2S1W of Lagos such that it's the only city that can tap both the cows and the new fish. More importantly the jungle ought to be cleared from the start so that this city actually gets settled by pioneering British, Dutch, or Portuguese settlers.

I'm curious about other folks' reactions. Am I the only one bothered by this?
 
99% of what you have said has already been discussed and fixed in the DOC modmod. You should try it out.
 
I think all of those populations listed bar Karachi and Mumbai can easily be achieved by the late 20th century with adequate farms and corporations (yours of which I miss most of all). Even a hundred years ago all the cities on that list where many times smaller, and the problem with making cities bigger with resources rather than late game corps is you get medival behemoths of 10-20+ million pop cities (I think I had a pop 30 Luyang in 1000AD in a recent DoC game), where as the monopolisation of resources for corps usually/hopefully doesnt happen until late late game.

Karachi - Mumbai definitely does suck though.
 
While I agree that these cities suck, Mumbai has one corn right next to it.

I also recommend DoC.
 
Corn next to Mumbai I don't remember but holy cow has DoC changed since I was last here. I think Leoreth's avatar was a series of pictures of Lena Meyer-Landrut back then. I'll have to give it another shot after work.
 
Rhye actually buffed São Paulo at some point with resources and map adjustment. Formerly São Paulo could only be founded on the coal tile and literally nowhere else (as per the old city name manager), and it was a terrible city when built there or even in the general vicinity (not named São Paulo in this case). So much for being the largest city in South America.
Similarly Mumbai was buffed too but it still isn't a viable city.
California is a joke.
 
Corn next to Mumbai I don't remember but holy cow has DoC changed since I was last here. I think Leoreth's avatar was a series of pictures of Lena Meyer-Landrut back then. I'll have to give it another shot after work.
Haha, you remember Lena Meyer-Landrut :lol: That was Baldyr though, it's a shame he isn't active anymore. I think my avatar was Sokka from Avatar - The Last Airbender back then ;)
 
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