The Godslayer

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I was wondering what people think of the current implementation of the mighty Godslayer sword in the game.

I really like the mechanic and flavour, but I really dislike how it magically appears out of nowhere in the hands of the strongest opponent of the Illians as soon as Auric ascends, it really makes no sense to me and it's not a lot of fun honestly.

I'd rather have it be a possible result out of a lair... a result that cannot happen twice obviously!

or maybe a unique feature that disappears from the map once you visit it, granting the godsword to the unit that gets there first.

actually though I'd rather have the Godslayer not appear in every game, so that in some games it is an option and Auric can be easily killed, while in others the sword has not been found and so Erebus has to "ally" to destroy the god of winter before he overwhelms everybody. it should give the feeling of a long-lost, almighty artifact imho

so, what do you guys think? any good ideas about this?

 

[cyther]

I agree that the current way of sending in the Godslayer is poorly thought out and it shouldn't just be given to the strongest non-Illian civ.

 

[WCH]

I liked how in Age of Ice you really had to work for it. That was cool. I understand that the Godslayer was the entire point of that scenario, so it shouldn't be *as* much work in normal FFH... but it shouldn't just be handed to you either. Maybe give parts of it to two non-Illian civilizations, and they have to agree which one gets it? Probably wouldn't be possible to teach the AI to do that, though.

 

[jaredbb]

How about spawning a powerful barb unit with it's strength based on turn, gamespeed, and difficulty level? Kill the barb, get the sword, kick some Illian a$$. (like a hot knife through ice mana )

 

[BugReportage]

I think the Illians were implemented a bit ahead of schedule... Weren't they supposed to be released next phase? Perhaps the lore and the flavour hasn't caught up with the concepts. Could be worse,

The sword that killed the freezing snow.
Could be given to the lowest low.
Never to be used again.
Thus the world would surely end!

 

[zup]

Hmmmmm how about use the quest mechanic from vanilla BtS? "Build x of this before era/tech y and before anybody else does." Come up with the conditions, whoever meets them first gets the sword. Even if it is Illians themselves. Perhaps create several alternate quests for the rng to choose from.

 

[nihonjeff]

Not sure how challenging this would be to program, but how about a World Project titled "Search for the Godslayer" (or something more interesting and creative...) which only becomes available if the Mulcarn unit is in the game. The project would represent the civilization diverting resources to studying lore and physically going out to hunt for the weapon. When the project is completed, the Godslayer could either spawn in the city that completed the project, or in a random location on the map. This would help restore the flavor of the Godslayer as an extraordinarily powerful and mystical weapon that you need to work to find while not retreading the same ground as the Age of Ice scenario.

 

[sputnik323]

how about since all civs declare war on illians, they all get to vote on who gets to produce it or search for it.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

I know I may see flack for this, but why not (in single player) just give the sword option to the Human Player. The AI will just screw it up any way and Ulric will be running around with it...

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I think it is biased towards the human player.
I think I would prefer that a unique dungeon be created by the event, somewhere outside of Illian land, and all players notified of it. The only result that would clear the dungeon would be finding the sword, but you might let out a few wraiths first, or such.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Only thing that worries me about most of these possibilities is the matter of whether or not the Illians already have the territory. Though, so long as it doesn't happen predominantly, then it sounds like it'd be an okay possibility. Just, a difficult one to meet in order to get the Godslayer.

 

[morilac]

I thought it might be thematic if the Godslayer appeared at Letum Frigus when Auric ascended. Of course, there's an excellent chance that Letum Frigus is controlled by the Illians at this point, and it wouldn't really help the opponents.

One variation on this is to have a small list of Unique Features the Godslayer might appear at, like:
Letum Frigus
Tomb of Sucellus
Seven Pines
Broken Sepulcher
and other Unique Features which could conceivably be the final resting place of an old-world artifact. The game could then randomly pop it out when Auric ascends, and then either tell the players or not, based on how hard it should be to get. It could be invisible to Illians, giving the other players a tiny but conceivable chance to grab it with a stealth unit if it starts in Illian territory.

Alternatively, three pieces of the Godslayer could be given to each of the three strongest other teams. This would give them a race against time to reforge it before Auric kills one of them, and also force them to work together or be destroyed. Of course, I have no idea why the damn thing broke again, but hey, it happens all the time to named swords of power.

No matter what, it should require some work to get and be more of a Hail-Mary to keep players interested in the game, rather than a consistantly availible counter-punch to Ascension. It would also be cool if the Illians player remained in the dark about its status, making it all the sweeter when the smile dissolves off his face at the sight of a level 10 Immortal with the Godslayer marching purposefully toward him.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think having it spawn at the Letum Frigus or another unique feature could be good, but there is the rish that said feature would not exist in that perticular game. (For some reason I have a feeling that it was laid to rest along with Finner, the hero to whom it was first given, and that Kyorlin would return it to its proper place in Finner's Tomb after he finished using it. I'm a little surprised that Finner's Tomb hasn't been added as a unique feature yet, as it was one of the most important sites that the Elohim guarded and strove to keep secret.)


I doubt that AI civs would work well together to reforge the godslayer. They'd probably have to end up fighting over it, and destroying each other if Auric doesn't destroy them first.




I prefer killing Auric Ascended with a worker.

With the +3 a worker is capable of attacking, and thanks to Auric Ascended's <PythonPostCombatWon> function any unit with the Godslayer would kill the god, even if it dies in the process.

 

[WCH]

Ooh... perfect. It spawns at Letum Frigus next time a non-Illian non-Barb unit enters that plot. So, that plot becomes very, very important to the Illians and to whoever wants to stop them. Great spot to crusade to.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

From the balance thread:

Having the Godslayer spawn at a known plot is that if the Illians sit Auric on top of it, then there is no longer any point to having the Godslayer in the game. You'd have to kill AA to get the Godslayer to kill AA with it.

I think that the Godslayer would be an ideal use of the vanilla quest system. When AA is spawned, spawn the Godslayer somewhere random (maybe forced away from AA himself) and give all the opposing civs the quest (and location) to get it.

 

[Jabie]

If we're having the God Slayer, it might be fun to see the Great Stag return too.

 

[Skitters]

I think it is biased towards the human player.
I think I would prefer that a unique dungeon be created by the event, somewhere outside of Illian land, and all players notified of it. The only result that would clear the dungeon would be finding the sword, but you might let out a few wraiths first, or such.

I think having it spawn at the Letum Frigus or another unique feature could be good, but there is the rish that said feature would not exist in that perticular game. (For some reason I have a feeling that it was laid to rest along with Finner, the hero to whom it was first given, and that Kyorlin would return it to its proper place in Finner's Tomb after he finished using it. I'm a little surprised that Finner's Tomb hasn't been added as a unique feature yet, as it was one of the most important sites that the Elohim guarded and strove to keep secret.)

Perhaps we could tie this into an idea for an event I was thinking about where there would be an avalanche/rockfall event that reveals the hitherto unknown location of a Unique Feature which I was thinking would be a way to have a late game Dungeon on a hill appear (replacing a Mountain tile).

For these purposes then it would effectively replace a Mountain tile with "Finner's Tomb" unique feature. Though presumably the event would have to consider placement (ie; so it's not in the midst of an innacessible mountain range, and would presumably outside Illian cultural borders). Lorewise that wouldn't explain why the Elohim suddenly don't know where it is, but in gameplay terms it'd also prevent the Illians from putting preventitive measures in to stop people acquiring the sword.

 

[rusty217]

Perhaps we could tie this into an idea for an event I was thinking about where there would be an avalanche/rockfall event that reveals the hitherto unknown location of a Unique Feature which I was thinking would be a way to have a late game Dungeon on a hill appear (replacing a Mountain tile).

For these purposes then it would effectively replace a Mountain tile with "Finner's Tomb" unique feature. Though presumably the event would have to consider placement (ie; so it's not in the midst of an innacessible mountain range, and would presumably outside Illian cultural borders). Lorewise that wouldn't explain why the Elohim suddenly don't know where it is, but in gameplay terms it'd also prevent the Illians from putting preventitive measures in to stop people acquiring the sword.

I think this is the best idea so far, however I think the Elohim should be notified of where it is but nobody else. Also if it were to have the same chances of each type of event happening but only one rare good event, which spawns the godslayer, and only that event clearing the lair, it would be a very fun way to try to combat Auric.

Whatever changes happen the Godslayer should definately be much harder to get, and maybe impossible in some games. Afterall if you didn't realise them castin the draw means you need to go kill them quickly, then you deserve to be slaughtered by an almost unstoppable foe...

 

[BugReportage]

I personally think the Godslayer was most likely shattered after the slaying of Mulcarn and the pieces scattered to the four winds. I'd find it very interesting if each of the four pieces just spawns randomly on the map such that they spawn on different continents etc.

A ritual could reveal them and... This wouldn't work because this is a single player game and the AI would not hand over their pieces when Mulcarn is summoned.

And for those who think it wouldn't work because the Illians might get a piece, in all realism they WOULD actively try to find a piece so who cares? The pieces spawn at the beginning of the game. Maybe you should get you butts in gear and lay claim to that piece by attacking the Illians actively to attain it.
In all realism Auric would definitely actively hunt for the Godslayer, do you think Mulcarn is so stupid as to do the same thing twice?

 

[Jabie]

What's to stop Auric keeping hold of a piece of the Godslayer. I've no problem with the Illians grabbing all the chunks of the Godslayer and storing them in some heavily fortified city, but having Auric stand on them all seems to be a little cheap to me. Maybe the Godslayer should be such an Anathema to Auric that he cannot enter a tile which contains a piece of it.