The Great Guava Biofuel Debate!

[Che Guava]

HONE YOUR SCIENCE SKILLS!

UNLEASH YOUR INNER CONSERVATIONIST!

GET YOUR CHANCE TO CRUSH CRUDE!

Take part in the great guava Biofuel debate by telling us which biofuel source is most likely to get the world off of crude and why all the others just won't work!

Even if you don't think biofuels will save the world, or if the world even needs saving, take a minute to look over the options and imagine we only had those choices for energy. Which would you use?

Back a winner, defend it to the death, and may the best biofuel win!

EDIT: ARG! I didn't add a poll...well, perhaps we can get a moderator to help in a bit...in the meantime, here are the options

(1) Ethanol Production
(2) Methane/Biogas production
(3) Biodiesel
(4) Biomass-to-liquid
(5) Biomass combustion

ADDED:
(6) Biobutenol

Since we still don't have a poll, other option suggestions are welcome

 

[Urederra]

I just wanted to link the thread I opened about biobutanol.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175635&highlight=biobutanol

 

[Che Guava]

I'll add it to the list...unless yout hink it fits within an existing catagory?

 

[nivi]

None of them will, biofuels is at most a stepping stone towards better alternative energy.

 

[Che Guava]

None of them will, biofuels is at most a stepping stone towards better alternative energy.

SIlly rabbit, read the OP again: you don't need to beleive in them, just tell us which you think is the best of the bunch!

 

[Abaddon]

Biodiesel- we can grow oil! its carbon neutral.

 

[carlosMM]

well, biofule and biogas will not soon totally replace conventional energy sources. But especially biogas is a great prospect!

Things we have to do:
- learn to reduce the risk to producers (accidents happen, need to cut down here!)
- grow more, but only where it is not harmful
- optimize the gas output by using plants that produce more biogas


EDIT: read this as me being quite cirital of guave biofuel.

 

[Abaddon]

plants producing more biogas.. how does that work?

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that the lobbyists are going to push bioethanol hard enough that it will become the next 'thing'. I'm pretty sure the hassle means that electric cars will become more popular too. For my money, though, I suspect that tree farms will be the source of cellulose once we get sick of the corn lobby screwing everything up.

 

[carlosMM]

plants producing more biogas.. how does that work?

Well, I have only second hand knowledge, but I recently heard of studies showing a 10 to 22% increase compared to 'average' plant matter (e.g. from wheat, corn or hay production' by selectively planting plants with better-degenerating cellulose! Simply said: a higher % of the plan matter is broken down for gas production.

Obviously, selective breeding can help, too - plants that have less lignine are higher producers, unless you ferment them for a long time, which is not desirable. So breeding less-hardy plants from the already highly effective families would be a great idea.


Potential drawbacks: as with any new mass crop, one must waht out for possible allergies!

 

[Abaddon]

Jatropha for example. Trees with big nuts heavy in oil.

 

[carlosMM]

I think that the lobbyists are going to push bioethanol hard enough that it will become the next 'thing'. I'm pretty sure the hassle means that electric cars will become more popular too. For my money, though, I suspect that tree farms will be the source of cellulose once we get sick of the corn lobby screwing everything up.

much much lignine in trees - decays slowly. Not good.

No, annuals will be the big thing, me thinks.

 

[Abaddon]

So its as the cellulse degrades you get methane..

any work being done on better bacteria to do the breaking down?

 

[carlosMM]

So its as the cellulse degrades you get methane..

any work being done on better bacteria to do the breaking down?

Remember that digestive bacteria have been optimized for this task for hundreds of millions of years. I guess it is more a matter of finding the toughest ones around than breeding better ones

 

[Abaddon]

optimized at normal temperatures.. what about ones with stronger dna/enzymes that can work at 45 degrees or more?

 

[carlosMM]

optimized at normal temperatures.. what about ones with stronger dna/enzymes that can work at 45 degrees or more?

well, theoretically - YES!
Practically: it requires a lot of effort, and the closer you get to 60°C, the closer you get to the point of enzyme degeneration, so ti may simply not be worth it.

 

[Che Guava]

I gotta say, my bets are on biogas as the best choice for biofuel right now. What other fuel can you make out of manure, plant waste, waste water, or even extract out of landfills? GO methane

 

[El_Machinae]

much much lignine in trees - decays slowly. Not good.

No, annuals will be the big thing, me thinks.

They recently sequenced the poplar tree genome. It looks like the lignin pathways are specific to different parts of the tree (i.e., we can modulate the lignin production in the roots vs. trunk). The scientists are hoping to increase the lignin in the roots and increase the cellulose in the trunks. They're hoping for a product with a double-whammy; increased below-ground CO2 sequestering and increased ease of fermentation.

My main hope is we get off of this damned 'corn' kick we're on.

 

[Che Guava]

They recently sequenced the poplar tree genome. It looks like the lignin pathways are specific to different parts of the tree (i.e., we can modulate the lignin production in the roots vs. trunk). The scientists are hoping to increase the lignin in the roots and increase the cellulose in the trunks. They're hoping for a product with a double-whammy; increased below-ground CO2 sequestering and increased ease of fermentation.

My main hope is we get off of this damned 'corn' kick we're on.

Seconded. I wish people wold realize that growing corn isn't exactly the cheapest (or healthiest) crop to grow.

interesting stuff about poplars. My father took a brief stab at poplar breeding as a fibre crop, but unfortunately the local market fell through before much could be done.

I personally beleive that ethanol production outside the tropics is only going to be viable if we 'couple' it with another product. i.e. Using residues from food crops...

 

[carlosMM]

They recently sequenced the poplar tree genome. It looks like the lignin pathways are specific to different parts of the tree (i.e., we can modulate the lignin production in the roots vs. trunk). The scientists are hoping to increase the lignin in the roots and increase the cellulose in the trunks. They're hoping for a product with a double-whammy; increased below-ground CO2 sequestering and increased ease of fermentation.

My main hope is we get off of this damned 'corn' kick we're on.

wow, that is news to me, and welcome news