The Huns

[Mirc]

Its interesting, I was interested why in English is used nonsense Hungary. In the Czech is Hungary "Maďarsko" and inhabitant is "Maďar" and language is "maďarština". But Czech also using another word for Hungary in history and now maybe because minorities. Middle ages Hungary is called "Uhry" (same word in Czech means acne), Austria-Hungary is called "Rakousko-Uhersko). "Uherák" is famous Hungarian salam. When Czechs realy want insult Slovaks, they call them Hungarians

Heh, that's nothing, we use both Hungarian and Magyar for Hungary! "Ungur" - Hungarian, "Ungaria" - Hungary, but "(limba) Maghiara" - Hungarian (language). Also we call the Germans in 3 totally different names.

 

[GinandTonic]

Heh, that's nothing, we use both Hungarian and Magyar for Hungary! "Ungur" - Hungarian, "Ungaria" - Hungary, but "(limba) Maghiara" - Hungarian (language). Also we call the Germans in 3 totally different names.

I thought now we were all in the EU we had to stop calling the Germans names?

 

[Dragonlord]

I thought now we were all in the EU we had to stop calling the Germans names?

Or else!! Ve haff vays to make you talk.... right!

OT (more or less): Hungary is also Ungarn in German.

 

[klazlo]

When Czechs realy want insult Slovaks, they call them Hungarians

Hehe, when Hungarians want to insult Czechs, they call them Slovaks.
Anyhow, dannyshenanigan was right about the reason of mislabeling the magyars as huns.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

In English, "Magyar" and "Hungarian" mean two different things. A Magyar is a barbarian who comes in on horseback and burns your local church. A Hungarian is just some guy with a funny accent. Maybe also a funny mustache, but not always.

In any event, I do believe that there is a notable movement of people in Hungary who do believe that they are descended from the Huns, and that this belief is even stronger among the Hungarian minority living in Transylvania. So it's not just a misunderstanding in the English-speaking world only.

 

[klazlo]

In English, "Magyar" and "Hungarian" mean two different things. A Magyar is a barbarian who comes in on horseback and burns your local church. A Hungarian is just some guy with a funny accent. Maybe also a funny mustache, but not always.

In any event, I do believe that there is a notable movement of people in Hungary who do believe that they are descended from the Huns, and that this belief is even stronger among the Hungarian minority living in Transylvania. So it's not just a misunderstanding in the English-speaking world only.

Well, I don't know if such thing exists in Transylvania, but in Hungary that movement is actually people who call themselves "ancient magyars" (ősmagyar), referring the "true Magyar blood" before the royal bloodline of Arpad was finished in 1301. It is kind of like a right wing, uberculture movement with a xenophobic touch.
We have all kinds of idiots though who claim that the Magyars are descendants of Sumerians, Japanese, UFOs etc.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

All I know is they were from eastern Europe Western Russia area, I believe the country Hungary was named after them

Well, it is believed that the Huns originated in the Steppes of Russia, most say Mongolia. But they did move West.

 

[Mirc]

In English, "Magyar" and "Hungarian" mean two different things. A Magyar is a barbarian who comes in on horseback and burns your local church. A Hungarian is just some guy with a funny accent. Maybe also a funny mustache, but not always.

In any event, I do believe that there is a notable movement of people in Hungary who do believe that they are descended from the Huns, and that this belief is even stronger among the Hungarian minority living in Transylvania. So it's not just a misunderstanding in the English-speaking world only.

Yes that's right. I met some people who believe the Szekely are "the only true descendants of the Huns". But that's a stupid thing to say anyway, as that region is extremely mixed with all kinds of people (5 different ethnic groups...). Then again, I met a guy from France who was calling himself a Viking. (because he was from Normandy)

 

[innonimatu]

The Huns were united only in AD432 under Roas (Attila's father) who based himself in Hungary (hence the name). It was only during this time that they have the strength to start attacking the Roman Empire. The Romans paid tribute to Roas. When it's not paid the Huns attack the Romans, but largely to extort tribute rather than conquer. True the Hunnic Empire was large but it was very loosely-held.

They appear to have been at least loosely united before that. They reached the Roman Empire around the years 395-400 and initially allied with the romans against the Goths and the Vandals (who had anyway been pushed against the empire's borders by the Huns!).
After emperor Arcadius death they turned against the romans and fought a first war against the Eastern Empire between 408-412, when a peace treaty was concluded with chief named Khoraton representing the Hun side already as some sort of supreme king.

They later invaded the Western Empire at the request of Aetius to support the usurper Joannes in 422. By then they were ruled by Ruga (also known as Roas), from somewhere near river Tisza in modern day Hungary. Aetius used them intermittently against the Visigoths and other german tribes and, in 434, even gave away to Ruga some provinces in exchange for help against his roman rivals. Ruga then turned against the Eastern empire, but his death in the same year temporarily stopped the attacks. The attacks were resumed in 441 and by 443 the Eastern Empire was forced to pay a huge tribute.

The later history of the Huns under Attila is famous. Attila was succeeded by his son Ellac, defeated and killed in the battle of Nedau. Another of Attila's son (Dengizich) fled east and managed to partially rebuild the hun kingdom, but was decisively defeated after attacking the Eastern Roman Empire in 469.

It's not clear how many were the Huns. Despite having build a very large empire most of it was composed of vassal kingdoms, and they were willing to integrate in their command structure and make use of foreigners. The power structure, however, was hierarchic and clearly military. As a people ruled by a warrior caste attacking and razing the roman cities, the hunnic invasion of the Roman Empire hastened the emergence of the feudal system that would replace the ancient imperial government system based on cities.

 

[ParkCungHee]

In English, "Magyar" and "Hungarian" mean two different things. A Magyar is a barbarian who comes in on horseback and burns your local church. A Hungarian is just some guy with a funny accent. Maybe also a funny mustache, but not always.

In any event, I do believe that there is a notable movement of people in Hungary who do believe that they are descended from the Huns, and that this belief is even stronger among the Hungarian minority living in Transylvania. So it's not just a misunderstanding in the English-speaking world only.

I've heard Magyar used as a romantic term for Hungarians. Similar to Teuton.

 

[Tronicoz]

oh.. totaly forgot this topic, many answers but ila answer the first, the reason i din't search google is that i just wanted a short discription who the huns wer

 

[Turkish_Aries]

The Huns were the first nomadic Turkish state in history i'll bring you more documents soon

 

[Pascal Nouma]

Huns were a Turkic tribe.Huns had fought against Chinese(known from chinese sources) in asia and later they migrated to west.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0001/0001_02_01.htm

 

[Vrylakas]

Greetings all,

And hello, Laci. I keep meaning to write, but, well... I am a lazy man.

There is an old thread here in which the Hun-Hungarian debated the connection was debated a long time ago. I'm not terribly proud of the outcome but we did hash out much of the history and mythology of the "connections" -- as Laci mentioned, the Sumerians, Japanese and UFOs.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=65862

The "Hungarian" name is still debated; that it may have derived from a mistaken Western belief that the Magyars were Huns is possible, though less likely: the name exists (in somewhat different form) much further east than the west, among the early Slavs who probably hadn't experienced the Huns of A.D.400-453. The Slavic name for Magyars is generally a variation of "vengyer"
(Polish - "Węgier" [Ve'n'gyer], Russian - "Венгер" [Vyengyer]) which some believe may have derived from the old pre-Khazar Bulgar khanate ruled by Kubrat in the mid-7th century, which was known by its Turkic name, "empire of the Ten Tents", or [/i]Onogur[/i]. The Hungarians had been caught up in the Onogur empire, and it is possible that as they moved westward to the land they called Etelköz/Land Between the Rivers during/after the Khazar period in the 9th century, they may have come into contact with the Slavs, who (correctly) identified them as some group from the then-defunct Onogur empire. This may be corroborated by the Byzantines, who called the early Magyars "Turkoi", Turks -- as indeed the Onogur empire was an early Bulgar Turkic empire. In any event, it is thought by some (but not by all) that the "Onogur" name traveled westward with the Magyars as "vengyer", then "ungarisch", "hongrois", etc.

 

[cthom]

If you understand this, your Scottish

The Huns are well known followers of Glasgow Rangers FC.

 

[aronnax]

All i know is that the huns got defeated by the chinese so the tried to bully Europe instead

 

[klazlo]

Greetings all,

And hello, Laci. I keep meaning to write, but, well... I am a lazy man.

There is an old thread here in which the Hun-Hungarian debated the connection was debated a long time ago. I'm not terribly proud of the outcome but we did hash out much of the history and mythology of the "connections" -- as Laci mentioned, the Sumerians, Japanese and UFOs.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=65862

The "Hungarian" name is still debated; that it may have derived from a mistaken Western belief that the Magyars were Huns is possible, though less likely: the name exists (in somewhat different form) much further east than the west, among the early Slavs who probably hadn't experienced the Huns of A.D.400-453. The Slavic name for Magyars is generally a variation of "vengyer"
(Polish - "Węgier" [Ve'n'gyer], Russian - "Венгер" [Vyengyer]) which some believe may have derived from the old pre-Khazar Bulgar khanate ruled by Kubrat in the mid-7th century, which was known by its Turkic name, "empire of the Ten Tents", or [/i]Onogur[/i]. The Hungarians had been caught up in the Onogur empire, and it is possible that as they moved westward to the land they called Etelköz/Land Between the Rivers during/after the Khazar period in the 9th century, they may have come into contact with the Slavs, who (correctly) identified them as some group from the then-defunct Onogur empire. This may be corroborated by the Byzantines, who called the early Magyars "Turkoi", Turks -- as indeed the Onogur empire was an early Bulgar Turkic empire. In any event, it is thought by some (but not by all) that the "Onogur" name traveled westward with the Magyars as "vengyer", then "ungarisch", "hongrois", etc.

Hi there! It's good to see you here again! I was hoping that you weigh in, since it is your field, I'm just a non-Hun...
And laziness is the virtue of kings as the Hungarian saying goes...

 

[Vrylakas]

I've been working on a project I'll write you about off-line. Hope all is well there -

 

[Mirc]

Vrylakas, that other thread you linked to from here is absolutely amazing. I don't know if I've ever seen so much information in this forum condensed in this number of posts.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

As I understand it, many arguments of the form "barbarian group x is a later version of barbarian group y" is a result of lazy Byzantine or Frankish chroniclers using the same two-three names for every new group that came in.

Iirc, some people have argued that the Vandals were Polish (!) on the early Poles were called "Wends", which is think is actually a third group altogether.