The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix

[JoeBlade]

I've probably missed something in your text but why did you mine the hill with the pigs resoure?

If you really wanted a mined hill ASAP you could've picked the one south of it. Better still: you could've worked the pigs AND the plains hill by the river, which yields the same amount of food, more hammers AND one additional gold.

 

[MyOtherName]

I've probably missed something in your text but why did you mine the hill with the pigs resoure?

is better than .

Currently, only one food resource needs to be worked, and the fish is the best choice, due to the bonus commerce.

And there's that little detail that AH hadn't been researched, so he can't build a pasture anyways.


Now that I look at the screenshot, I see the happiness cap is 4; I hadn't realized that changed between warlords and BtS! When I suggested mining the pigs, it was based on the happiness cap of 5, and I figured fish, 2 plains hills, grassland hill, mined pigs was the best 5 tiles. It's less clear to me what's best for a happiness cap of 4.

 

[Bleys]

Also, being EXP, health wont be an issue for a while, which is all you would get by having the pasture there and not working the tile itself.

I am sure he will eventually build over the mine, but I would be shocked if those silly pigs stayed on that hill with those miners making such a mess! Heh, always amused me, how you can put a farm on a grassland or plains Iron or Copper mine, like anything would actually grow in that ground, LOL.

 

[gallego]

is better than .

Currently, only one food resource needs to be worked, and the fish is the best choice, due to the bonus commerce.

And there's that little detail that AH hadn't been researched, so he can't build a pasture anyways.


Now that I look at the screenshot, I see the happiness cap is 4; I hadn't realized that changed between warlords and BtS! When I suggested mining the pigs, it was based on the happiness cap of 5, and I figured fish, 2 plains hills, grassland hill, mined pigs was the best 5 tiles. It's less clear to me what's best for a happiness cap of 4.

At this point in the game, one extra commerce makes a big difference. I would have mined the riverside tile.

 

[martin026]

What I have noticed from Shaka, is that he usually goes for IW pretty quickly. So even if he does not have copper, he might have IW by the time you have horses hooked up and a number produced. Not worth it. Your first war probably won't come before cats.

 

[aelf]

If you really wanted a mined hill ASAP you could've picked the one south of it. Better still: you could've worked the pigs AND the plains hill by the river, which yields the same amount of food, more hammers AND one additional gold.

Like MyOtherName said, we didn't have AH till now. Besides, there weren't that many citizens to work the tiles for most of the round. The mined pigs was probably the best temporary measure for a self-sustaining productive tile that could be worked by a single citizen.

 

[Artichoker]

Shaka looks very much like a thorn in your side, whereas the threat from Genghis is at least reduced by the distance between his territory and yours.

The key to beating Shaka lies not only in resources, but also production capacity. Since he is aggressive, he may also be producing military units.
Sooner or later, however, it will be necessary to get rid of him.

 

[Elkad]

only horses, vs Impis? No way. Might as well use warriors.

Get over there and look for copper. If it's there, just stall and tech iron (risky-but-better) or archery(safe) while you build the 'mids. I'd be leaning towards archery, diverting to Iron seems like a long way on Immortal.

And it would be odd to see you NOT rush your nearest neighbor..

 

[vicawoo]

So, aelf, about the time when you switched from fishies to a lake... there's absolutely no point in that, since you can just check avoid growth and gain the extra food. If you wanted to maximize benefits without growing, you could changed from the wheat tile to a silk tile: that is, lose 3 food, gain 1 production 1 commerce, as opposed to losing 3 food and gaining nothing.

Whipping below 3 pop probably won't be worthwhile in the longrun without a granary.

And thing about chariot rushing shaka, if he has copper he might be inclined to build his unique unit.

Myothername, warlords is 4 happiness for the capital at immortal, it was just higher for lower difficulties.

 

[Validator]

Wouldn't it be better to move B one tile to the west? It's still coastal and gets a couple more grassland tiles to work. The only negative I see is that it would have some overlap with Shaka's second city, so possibly a "close borders" diplo hit. Don't know if that's worth choosing a sub-optimal location.

 

[aelf]

So, aelf, about the time when you switched from fishies to a lake... there's absolutely no point in that, since you can just check avoid growth and gain the extra food.

I developed the habit of never using the avoid growth button since I had the tendency to forget that it's on.

If you wanted to maximize benefits without growing, you could changed from the wheat tile to a silk tile: that is, lose 3 food, gain 1 production 1 commerce, as opposed to losing 3 food and gaining nothing.

Good point. I didn't see that. My micro is quite horrible now.

Wouldn't it be better to move B one tile to the west? It's still coastal and gets a couple more grassland tiles to work. The only negative I see is that it would have some overlap with Shaka's second city, so possibly a "close borders" diplo hit. Don't know if that's worth choosing a sub-optimal location.

A good point as well. When I was making the dotmap, I was just looking for a horse city with no overlap with Shaka's borders. Now that you point it out, that's a better city site overall.

Anyway, IMO we should scout out Shaka's land and see if he has copper, as someone suggested. If not, it might be worth trying to rush Shaka with chariots. IW is still a distant prospect, and usually the AI gets there first.

 

[hellwitch]

IMO rush shaka ASAP with charriots - pilllage any mine he have and kill him when you are ready. Do not allow Shaka to take metal. Else there is no chance to take this game because you wont have enough land.

The inland city site is a lot better as it have 4 floodplains and the future road will make your charriot attack very fast.

 

[fugazi]

Ouch, that's a nasty spot you're in. How about opening the info screen with Shaka a few times and see if he says anything about 'ha, look at my axemen'? A cheesy method that has worked for me a few times

 

[Morgrad]

Although I always prefer killing Shaka early, chariot-rushing him is just inviting an early defeat. If he gets impis online, you lose the war - period - and lose all opportunity to make him attack Ghengis later.

You'd be better off getting to Iron Working and Construction, play Shaka vs. the Khan so their UUs can slaughter each other, and then jump in on the Mongol's side with swords, axes, and catapults to wipe up Shaka.

A big pile of keshiks means a big pile of impis to counter them - and a big pile of axemen can make a big pile of impis thoroughly dead.

 

[futurehermit]

I think if it is possible to chariot rush Shaka it should be done.

 

[Artichoker]

Horses are not the "hot resource" in this stage of the game. In the pre-Horseback Riding years, your only horse unit is Chariots, and guess how they do against the Zulu UU?

You have two main obstacles preventing you from winning a war: 1) production capacity and 2) resources.

To build production capacity, you will need to settle 2 or 3 more cities, and build barracks in them. To get resources, you will probably need Iron Working. The question is which one you can achieve sooner.

Probably the Iron Working should be first.

 

[Winged Monkey]

Ouch, being squeezed in between Shaka and Genghis promises interesting times!

My radical proposal for this predicament is an iron-gambit. Instead of settling the horse city first, I'd go for the gold city, except settle two east instead of your proposed spot. It's a poorer spot for sure, but fresh water is less of a concern when expansive. It'd be decent (but not good) in the future as a hybrid commerce/production city with the three plains hills and perhaps a lumbermill and a couple of workshops. But more importantly, you'd get good production early and you'd get the gold hooked up without border expansion for maximum tech speed towards IW.

All this, of course, depends on finding iron closeby for an assault on Shaka. But hey, that's why it's called a gambit.

 

[MyOtherName]

Instead of settling the horse city first, I'd go for the gold city, except settle two east instead of your proposed spot. ... But more importantly, you'd get good production early and you'd get the gold hooked up without border expansion for maximum tech speed towards IW.

There's a big problem with that spot: a severe food shortage. (unless we're lucky with the hidden tile) You can't work all three hills until you have population 8 (and iron working)... and that consumes all of its pre-CS farmable grassland!

And settling in the marked position, the gold city will be able to work whichever hills the capitol cannot work due to happy caps. And I think it gives us a better chance at being lucky at finding iron in its borders.



But having said all of that, I think I'm inclined to agree with your positioning. This city won't be a terrific one in either spot -- but it will be immediately useful even if it does nothing but sit at pop 2 and work the gold & gems. And we can still build cottages for it instead of farms should we decide to use it that way.

More importantly, I think it uses the terrain better; it moves the city out of the way of the future all-grassland cities we might be able to settle in that vast jungle.

 

[vicawoo]

Well, when did shaka get slavery? Does the AI switch immediately?

If you can't kill off his copper, then unless you have archery, I think you die flat out.

 

[aelf]

If you can't kill off his copper, then unless you have archery, I think you die flat out.

Not really. Since feedback was slowing, I thought that all the recommendations for the necessary decisions had been made, so I played the next round. The good news is we didn't die

I'll post the update soon.