The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix

[Artichoker]

Iron is high priority, no doubt.

Looking at cities A and B, as compared to C, it looks like the extra food resources are necessary to compensate for having mostly plains in that area.

So, therefore, I would rule out city C for now, since it lacks both iron and food resources (the grasslands are more of a long-term advantage, but not much of a short-term advantage).

I would also prefer 1S of B as the city tile for the iron city. The reason it's better than B is that you don't gain much by being 1 tile away from 2 food resources. 1S of B is 1 tile away from 1 food resource, and 2 tiles away from the 2nd food resource, which is almost as good.

But the advantage is that you gain a few jungle squares, which can be converted to grasslands.

Site A's flaws are that it has a lot of desert/mountain/water squares.

 

[aelf]

Iron is high priority, no doubt.

Looking at cities A and B, as compared to C, it looks like the extra food resources are necessary to compensate for having mostly plains in that area.

So, therefore, I would rule out city C for now, since it lacks both iron and food resources (the grasslands are more of a long-term advantage, but not much of a short-term advantage).

No one is saying that C can be next. It's either A or B (or whatever variations of them) next and then C.

I would also prefer 1S of B as the city tile for the iron city. The reason it's better than B is that you don't gain much by being 1 tile away from 2 food resources. 1S of B is 1 tile away from 1 food resource, and 2 tiles away from the 2nd food resource, which is almost as good.

But the advantage is that you gain a few jungle squares, which can be converted to grasslands.

Site A's flaws are that it has a lot of desert/mountain/water squares.

You didn't mention the fact that B (or 1S of it) doesn't have access to iron immediately. That might be a crucial factor that needs consideration.

 

[Artichoker]

No one is saying that C can be next. It's either A or B (or whatever variations of them) next and then C.



You didn't mention the fact that B (or 1S of it) doesn't have access to iron immediately. That might be a crucial factor that needs consideration.

According to my impression, the timing of iron-based units is not appropriate to be gearing for instant access to iron.

Now that you've opted to forgo the rush, your next concern should be defense, and you can be confident that your chariots, with their bonus vs. axemen, can provide an adequate defense vs. shaka's axemen.

If he brings impi's, you can counter them with archers, as long as they have the shock promotion.

 

[Xurr]

You didn't mention the fact that B (or 1S of it) doesn't have access to iron immediately. That might be a crucial factor that needs consideration.

I was thinking the same thing. 1S of A would be the best of both worlds IMHO.

 

[dragomaster]

If you settle 1s of B be shore you do everyting possible to chop the forest on a culture building. choping a monument is cheap and will make the iron avaible earlyer than a choped and wiped library. I however is not an imortal player so I don't know if you faling behind alot if you reserch mystesism during building the settler. Then is the big question what the fog is hiding in 1S of A spot. if there is any food there the settling spots for the gold gems and iron city's can be diffrent aswell.

Edit: I agree that settling the 1S of A is the best chois. If Ghandi and Mansa was your neighbours 1S of B for shore but now you have shaka and gengis, the worst warmongers in the game.

 

[davy_hall]

If you settle 1s of B be shore you do everyting possible to chop the forest on a culture building. choping a monument is cheap and will make the iron avaible earlyer than a choped and wiped library. I however is not an imortal player so I don't know if you faling behind alot if you reserch mystesism during building the settler. Then is the big question what the fog is hiding in 1S of A spot. if there is any food there the settling spots for the gold gems and iron city's can be diffrent aswell.

Yeah I think you need to find out what's in that fog. 1S of A has 5 unknown tiles in its BFC. What's hidden in there could have a lot if impact on how good that location is compared to the other options.

 

[Artichoker]

If you settle 1s of B be shore you do everyting possible to chop the forest on a culture building. choping a monument is cheap and will make the iron avaible earlyer than a choped and wiped library. I however is not an imortal player so I don't know if you faling behind alot if you reserch mystesism during building the settler. Then is the big question what the fog is hiding in 1S of A spot. if there is any food there the settling spots for the gold gems and iron city's can be diffrent aswell.

Edit: I agree that settling the 1S of A is the best chois. If Ghandi and Mansa was your neighbours 1S of B for shore but now you have shaka and gengis, the worst warmongers in the game.

But now you're talking about the neighboring tiles having plains and jungle...without a food resource in the 1st ring, you'll be hard pressed to make productive use of that city, until you develop the culture.

Don't forget that military is not only about resources, but also production. With no good food in the 1st ring, that citiy's growth and production are stunted.

 

[Scaphism]

Good to see you back aelf and thanks for the update.

I'd vote for A or 1S of A. A brand new city is never going to be able to contribute units right away - the crucial thing it can do is provide Iron to your already developed (with barracks and granaries in place) cities.

With Iron hooked up it will not take too long to get a monument built, by then you should have a few workers free who can quickly improve the cow and wheat so that city can grow and be produtive easily.

Settling site B means many, many turns without Iron. I can't recall what game speed you are playing on, but it's likely more than 15 turns.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

According to my impression, the timing of iron-based units is not appropriate to be gearing for instant access to iron.

Now that you've opted to forgo the rush, your next concern should be defense, and you can be confident that your chariots, with their bonus vs. axemen, can provide an adequate defense vs. shaka's axemen.

If he brings impi's, you can counter them with archers, as long as they have the shock promotion.

the chariot bonus works only on offence; so, you either attack his stack and be faced with the impis as opponent, or you wait and then you don't have the axemen bonus. Also, being shaka, I'd bet he'll go for iron working fast(if he didn't do it already) so you'd have swords ontop to take care of the archers.

I'd say walls are cheap with stone and make you pretty invulnerable till construction. But usually the ai has the brain to research construction/build cata if he sees you have walls, so what I usually do is have them prebuilt till a couple of turns/1 whip away and pop them if they attack; this has the disadvantage you won't have your power graph increase from walls.

Tbh, I'd go alphabet and try to bribe one of them to war the other asap while prayin' noone wins.. if(and the if is big) they won't both have somethin' on their hands already

Anyway, worse then being isolated with shaka and genghis... I don't know what you can get. Both declare at pretty much any relations(think genghis declares up to +11, but I don't remember right) and it's hard to keep relations with them to start with; both sure know how to be full of demands. Worse, police state won't help for fav. civic bonus since it'll be a while till they'll be able to run it themselves

And I'd save the ge for machinery while trying to get to optics pretty fast to get out and find some decent tech partner for a change... those 2 are lousy techers.

 

[dragomaster]

But now you're talking about the neighboring tiles having plains and jungle...without a food resource in the 1st ring, you'll be hard pressed to make productive use of that city, until you develop the culture.

Don't forget that military is not only about resources, but also production. With no good food in the 1st ring, that citiy's growth and production are stunted.

He can use his capital to produce units. it's the capital that are in danger. I dont think Gengis will attack now but shaka can do it soon. the problem is that we don't have any counter to his units. I don't even know if we have archery yet. iron now, then food.

he can start to build a road thoward A spot now. so when the settler arrive the road is almost finnished. I he's affraid about the city being unproductive I can inform him that it's not when the Iron resource on plains is equal to five hammers. if he wants the food fast he can take a worker to that forrest and pre-choop it now so when the settler arrive that city it will almost have a monument.

He can settle site B but it is risky. do as you like aelf, you are a good player so I think you will make a wise desition.

 

[carl corey]

Welcome back, aelf!

I'd go for 1S of A. No use in delaying Iron or you might end up with Shaka knocking at your door. You'll have time to build a monument or library while connecting the iron and so you'll soon get the cows and wheat.

 

[aelf]

I've played the next round. I'll try to post the update midweek.

 

[dutchfire]

*waiting anxiously*

I know that you've played the round already, but I'm interested in how you specialized your cities. I would give C 2 grassland farms, and work 2 farms + gems + gold + a specialist at size 5. Will you use A/B for production, or for specialists?

 

[Dazzle]

I came upon your challenge series just Christmas and was able to read them all without having to wait for each new posts. This is the first one where if had to check back for each update - it's not nice!

Thanks for the entertainment though and get posting

 

[dutchfire]

 

[aelf]

Sorry for the delay. I'm working on the update right now, but I can't finish it immediately. I'll have it up sometime today.

 

[vicawoo]

I've been playing montezuma a bit to perfect relentless warmongering, so I took a look at your first immortal challenge. More diplomacy than conquest.

 

[vicawoo]

Erm, in the big picture, you share a large border with shaka, he's expanded to the north, and you're unable to attack him. There's a lot of land between you and Genghis and aside from slogging through jungles he's attackable. You either have to start grabbing land more aggressively or prepare to attack genghis.

 

[aelf]

I've been playing montezuma a bit to perfect relentless warmongering, so I took a look at your first immortal challenge. More diplomacy than conquest.

Is that a bad thing?

Well, there's nothing to relentless warmongering but... relentless warmongering. And there are many threads about it around. But, in any case, I think the Churchill game will be more helpful in demonstrating that.

 

[carl corey]

Is that a bad thing?

Not in my books it isn't!