The Immortal Isolation of Shaka Zulu

[Krugi]

I think the title says most of it...

T100 state of affairs:

• Standard Continents map, 6 AI opponents
• Restricted Leaders, Shaka of Zulu; other leaders set to Random
• The start is isolated.
• No huts/events.

At 100% science I'm ranked second in GDP, virtually tied for first, but dead last (or nearly so) in everything else. The current plan, in lieu of good ideas, is to settle 2-3 further cities and work a lot of cottages while beelining for Optics (caravels) and hoping that I can trade Compass/Optics/Machinery around. Unfortunately, Machinery destroys the possibility of bulbing Lib, so I'll have to expect that I won't receive the free tech. Perhaps I'll have to bulb Astro and invade another continent with galleons; that seems like an invitation to disaster, but I feel like I'm running out of options. Christianity has been founded on the previous turn if I remember right, probably by someone with Religious flavour, as this seems like a somewhat early date.

This is my first game on Immortal difficulty.

Note the terrible fogbusting / hammer investment planning forcing me to 1-pop whip a chariot at kwaDukuza next turn. Also note that I still build too many roads whenever I run short on strategic ideas.

Should I self-tech Maths and Calendar to settle and improve the city site near the spices, or would that diversion on the tech tree only put me further behind?

In any event, I cannot play much across the span of the next few days, so I figure that I should ask for help again: can this game be salvaged yet?

 

[timmy827]

Hi, I was a marginal Immortal player in my more regular days and am more rusty now, so maybe not the best source. But 2c...

R_Rolo's Isolated Start Guide has a lot of tips, including a suggestion against the Optics beeline .

Your land is pretty rough - besides the isolation having 1/3 of your island be tundra, and crap for happy. With stone I would have strongly considered chopping out the Pyramids, for the happy as much as the scientist beakers. 1E of your "city" marking near the spices would have been a candidate. But it may be too late now.

Assuming you knew or strongly suspected isolation, not sure I understand going through Alphabet instead of Math for Currency. (the chop-pyramids idea really needed math).
Good use of first-ring food locations to avoid Mysticism/Monuments though.

 

[Izuul]

Do you still have the starting save?

 

[Krugi]

Here's the starting save, Izuul.

Thanks for the link and your advice, timmy. I think I've simply forgotten that Ulundi was founded on stone. Uh, no further comment. 'Mids should make this game much less toilsome indeed; feed two Rep scientists at every city and rush for Caste System. The core has good terrain and can feed six cities of decent size (with the happy cap pushed by Rep), it's just that the periphery offers nothing much. Definitely a key move that I've missed.

In retrospect, I also agree that Maths -> Currency would have been the superior choice (not least because it's the prereq to CS, and also Calendar to ease the happiness constraints); Alpha did have the perk of allowing me to build research from all those mined green hills to reach Currency slightly faster. Not sure if that's been much help, though.

I think I'll switch gears and try to reach Civil Service despite the Alpha self-research; if I were IND, I would still consider teching Metal Casting to grab 2-pop whippable forges (I love those) and possibly the Colossus (would have required Maths, though).

 

[Izuul]

It's usually easier to build wealth to finance research in this kind of situation since gold generation via AI tech and resource trades is not available. Pretty much all of the benefits of Alpha go out the window in isolation which makes Math > Currency the stronger choice. The only exception would be if you somehow managed to trash your economy so bad early that you needed to build research to get to Currency.

 

[DanielTorrence]

Will give it a try although I think Shaka isn't the best leader for isolated starts. Good luck with your attempt.

 

[MegaLurker]

Lots of land, good food, stone, no commerce...I'd 100% beeline the 'mids as soon as I realized I was alone. No hurry to expand and copper in the capital means you can farm barb cities, unlock the HE, etc.

 

[yyeah]

Decided to try it too and have some IMM fun .
T100.

Spoiler :

tech path mining-bw-wheel-mansonry-pottery-writing-math-curancy.
Probably i go AH ->CS after curancy becouse its great burea cap then Optics.

And yea this start screams for Mids i bulid it in 1640BC.

6 cities atm iam planning to settle 7 more after currancy.

cap.

@Krugi

Spoiler :

1 thing what i noticed is that i rly dont like your settle. 3 tile is usually great but here you loosing too much river tiles and fresh water in cap, tahts not worth it imo especialy if you have elephants 1N its allso great tile to settle.

But anyway you did settle that stone this is not good breau cap, but its great prdoduction spot so putting academy there was kind of bad a lot better place to put academy and move your capitol there is umguumgu ;D or sth, so yea this are kind of things what you can improove.

Since you dont have good breau cap atm going for MC-> Optics is good decision i think.

 

[yyeah]

800AD

Spoiler :

11 cities want to settle 3 more 2 setlers out.


tech path after curancy was
AH-CoL-CS and beeline Optics.



My 1st GP was GE iam saving it for mining probably, 2nd was GS and i was thinking about should i bulid Academy in cap or bulb Philo.
Decided to bulid Academy and iam not sure about this decision maybe bulbin Philo was better option since i would have religion and i could switch in to caste and pacifism, this in connection with Mids could give me more BPT i think and i would have maybe 2 GS to bulb Edu probably.
Thing is that there was not too much forest to chop and i wanted to settle some more sites wold be hard wihtout whiping. ANother thing is that some of my cities would be useless without irg and i have to whip some more workers allso.
So i dont know this is debatable any thoughs ?

Now iam going Optics then Edu and try to Lib Astro.
This would be an option on diety but maybe on Imm i willl be fine, anyway iam glad that this sint diety game iam just so slow witch reserch.

Problem with this isolation start is that we dont have any islands, what i usually do with this kind of start is settle islands and libarate this cities. This gives and trading partner probably not too good but allways something allso +1 is usefull.

Cap.


225 at 100%
breaking even at 20% ;/

Not too good but well without any foreign its not too bad.
Think i just need to whip some Courthouses.

 

[Izuul]

I've been playing this one and enjoying the game. Planned to do a write up with some details, but i now have a cast on a broken hand and typing is a massive struggle. Short version:

Spoiler :

1 AD - expanding pretty slowly and focusing on capitol. Have the Mids, used stone for a little fail gold, about to settle marble to chop MoM and build HE. Went for CS (50 BC i think) before Optics.


860 Lib Astro. Have contact with all AI and I soon get a bunch of resources and about 40gpt in resource trades. Planning to load up Cuirs and attack Hatty who is very big, but backwards.


Switching to war civics during Taj golden age. Have a few knights and stuff to upgrade to Cuirs. Going to DoW with 6 galleons filled with Cuirs.


Had to fight off a huge stack of Egyptian units (40+), but they were mostly garbage so after losing most of my initial group of Cuirs, i rolled over her with reinforcements. Other 4 AI all love each other so UN win is not possible. I'm too lazy for a Cuir/Cav battle over that many ocean tiles so going for NUKES! Will use cuirs/cavs to mop up afterwards. This is where i am currently...

 

[yyeah]

Nice Lib date Izuul.

 

[yyeah]

1894AD Dom
Fun map ty for shereing.
85 tanks and 40 ICBMs did they job

 

[sampsa]

Izuul and yyeah, if you enjoy hard immortal games, I have one. Leader is Qin, map script fractal.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Soooo,
One thing you've neglected in your run, Krugi, is to raise your happy cap.
It's painful to look at un-worked food tiles.

Maybe you've gathered that much from the others' comments, already.
It seems to me that you did well on the other fronts.

The Pyramids have been mentionned extensively but it isn't the only option.
I would think that using the Oracle to get Monarchy could work just as well, or even better if you're going research Litterature.
The main difference, in my view, is that the Oracle needs to be secured earlier, after, say, the 3rd city and before the 4th. Possibly between the 2nd and 3rd (in which case you can task your 2nd city with a settler, while the cap is busy with the wonder). So you need to tweak your early tech path accordingly (can't research everything).


With 0 happy bonuses, unlocking happy sources should be your primary concern.
It would allow, say, to farm Nobamba and other 2-food cities (uMgung...), run scientists, bulb stuff (Astro/Lib),
Or just to cottage the hell of your greenland to have an explosive GNP.
Most likely, a combination of those is the way to go but...
... for this you need population points, so...
... raising the happy cap is the pre-requisite to any development, here.



I don't have a screenshot to offer.
Metal barbs had captured my warriored 4th city when I called it a loss.

 

[yyeah]

Izuul and yyeah, if you enjoy hard immortal games, I have one. Leader is Qin, map script fractal.

Ty for shereing sampsa, played few turns in to it, but its isolated start again and i dont think "i can handle" 2 isolation maps in a row

 

[sampsa]

Ty for shereing sampsa, played few turns in to it, but its isolated start again and i dont think "i can handle" 2 isolation maps in a row

I understand. It's a fun map in it's own way, and I know I learned a lot re-playing it +10 times.

 

[DanielTorrence]

I've been playing this one and enjoying the game. Planned to do a write up with some details, but i now have a cast on a broken hand and typing is a massive struggle. Short version:

I am sorry for your injury, I hope you get better soon. Shows real enthusiasm to write a report at all...

regarding your game, may I ask what tech path you went, perhaps you could provide a save past 1 AD? I tried it several times but if I manage CS around 50 BC I am lacking calender, currency and I usually miss CoL...Thanks for sharing.

 

[Izuul]

I am sorry for your injury, I hope you get better soon. Shows real enthusiasm to write a report at all...

regarding your game, may I ask what tech path you went, perhaps you could provide a save past 1 AD? I tried it several times but if I manage CS around 50 BC I am lacking calender, currency and I usually miss CoL...Thanks for sharing.

It's been awhile so I don't remember the context of all of this within the game, but the tech path to CS was...

Spoiler :

AH > Wheel > Pottery > Mining > Masonry (stone and Mids) > BW > Fishing > Writing > Math > Currency > Sailing > CoL > Calendar (spices and MoM) > CS

The earliest save i can find is 660 AD, but I'll attach it.