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The Iroquios

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ision, Jul 11, 2004.

  1. Ision

    Ision Master

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    The Iroquois by Zardnaar

    Although not a new civ as such the Iroquois were changed from Religious and Expansionistic in Civ 3 to Commercial and Agricultural in the Conquests expansion pack. Agricultural was one of the new traits introduced in Conquests and is widely regarded as one of the most powerful traits in the game. One could make a convincing argument its the most powerful trait but with all things in civ that’s a matter of play style and opinion. With a bonus food in your city box if you start beside a river or change your government from despotism, you can often expand faster than any other trait in the game. You also get half priced aqueducts to help you grow faster and start with the pottery tech for the all important settler factory start. As if all of the above wasn't enough it also gives you bonus food when you irrigate a desert.

    The Commercial trait is perhaps one of the most under rated traits in the game. It doesn't help you grow any faster and its effects are subtle often not being noticed until later in the game. Each city you build generates an extra gold per turn for your treasury. Although a minor effect it is noticeable. The greatest benefit from the Commercial trait is reduced corruption. Its effect is similar to having a courthouse in every city you build. The trait is powerful and with a constant effect. Some other traits are limited to what type of map you are on or are situational or sometime vary in usefulness depending on the difficulty level of the game. The Commercial trait takes effect from the time you build your 1st city right through to the end of the game and it doesn't matter if you are playing on Chieftain or Sid. The starting tech is alphabet, which will give you a head start toward the writing- philosophy tech tree, which the AI often neglects.

    Put together the two traits have a decent amount of synergy between them. Certain civs are well known for being very good at culture or science or rapid expansion due to their trait combo. The Iroquois are one of the most productive civs in the game. In general their cities are some of the largest in the game and with the reduced corruption often produce the most shields and gold as well. Its also one of the civs the AI plays reasonably well. The next time you see the Iroquois in the game have a look at their empire- often its large and packed full of wonders you can acquire.

    Despite having traits that wouldn't normally be regarded as ideal for war, the Iroquois are one of the best warmongering civs in the game. This is due to the power of their unique unit (UU) and faster growth. The Mounted Warrior is an early ancient age unit that requires horses to build. For 30 shields you get a 3/1/2 unit. No other unit in the middle age has an attack power of 3 and a movement of 2 in the ancient except the Gaelic Swordsman- and that costs 40 shields! The MW allows the Iroquois player a huge advantage of unmatched speed and firepower for the price that doesn't become obsolete until the discovery of chivalry a whole age later in the game. An early ancient age MW blitz can overpower most AI civs this early in the game. It also triggers your golden age to keep a seemingly unending supply of them coming. Like all fast units it has a 50% chance of retreating vs. a slow unit if it loses its combat. In effect you can throw a large stack of MW at a city defended by spearmen or even pikemen and be confident of capturing it with minimal loss. It also allows rapid deployment times to threatened areas of your empire or to reinforce critical attacks as your empire expands. There’s a huge difference between 5 turns to reach the AI civ vs. 10 compared to a swordsmen. Speed kills. The hard-core warmonger should try to beeline to horseback riding ASAP, followed by a switch to monarchy later on. In the middle ages you can easily beeline for chivalry and/or military tradition and upgrade your MWs to knights or cavalry. Although expensive, remember that the Iroquois have the commercial trait to help pay for upgrades. If possible, building or capturing Leonardo’s Workshop can save you thousands of gold-more than most other civs in the game. Once in the industrial age a final switch to communism is often the coup de grace for any remaining AI civs. Overall a 1st tier warmongering civ.

    For such a strong warmongering civ the Iroquois also make a decent builder civ. They can easily research writing, code of laws, philosophy and get republic for free in the easier difficulty levels - or grab literacy and attempt to build the Great Library. They can vary this approach as the situation demands- map-making on an island map for example. Their trait combo makes for a solid builder civ despite the lack of half price cultural buildings. A beeline to republic and then later democracy in combination with the lowered corruption from the commercial trait can allow for an economic powerhouse civ. The extra gold from their traits allows you to maintain a good research rate or use the luxury slider to keep your rapidly growing civ happy and productive. A few civs can beat the Iroquois for expansion, but they can match or beat most of the 31 civs. Another point to consider is the timing of the Iroquois golden age. The most likely time for their GA with a builder strategy is the late ancient age or early middle age. Although they have no half price cultural buildings they can often build temples, libraries, courthouses, marketplaces etc during their GA. Having large cities and decent infrastructure is important to get maximum use out of the republic government. Although for a non-scientific/religious/industrial civ they're good at being a builder civ, only through sheer size or money will they excel at it. A few small wars slowly expanding one or 2 cities at a time is also an option- they're not a great civ to just sit there and build - overall a 2nd tier builder civ.

    The true power for the Iroquois is the versatility they have. They are very good for war and can make for a decent builder civ. You can easily combine the two in an early war of expansion, followed by a switch to Republic once its over. They can adapt to virtually any role in the game warmonger, builder, banker, tech-trader, tech leader etc. Any win condition is viable with this civ- depending on your skill level of course.

    I would rate the Iroquois as a 1st tier civ. Not only that I would say they are one of the best civs in the game. They have one of the best unique units and one of the best set of traits as well. They have no real weakness except certain civs may be able to out perform them on certain map types – a near perfect blend of power, versatility, and speed.

    Side note: Ision rates this civ as 1st tier overall.

    Below is the link to all the other civ reviews:

    link to the individual civ reviews
     
  2. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

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    Another great article guys.

    Some could argue this may be the best civ in the game. For proof, go see SirPleb's and Arathorn's sid games.
     
  3. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    Nothing to say against this. Good job, as always, Zardnaar now even sounds like Ision. :)

    Except that the Iroquis city names are really 4th tier. :) This Civ tends also to be played very well by the AI! I had always strong Iroquis nations in my games.

    The AI building preference: Growth, Production, Trade
    Their favored Government is: COMMUNISM (a very C3C gov, much better than Facism for the AI)

    They also shun Monarchy, so they might develop from a Republic to a Communist state.

    Potter and Alphabet make also great starting Techs.


    And their King Unit is the Scorping King... I mean THE ROCK! ;)
     
  4. Ision

    Ision Master

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    sorry Longasc,

    It won't happen - the civ will go Fascism just like all others. The favorite gov for Communism and shunning of Monarchy will make absolutley NO difference. They will not go from Republic to Commie - they will mirror what every other AI does: Republic to Demo to Fascism (once the long wars start).

    As to your AI build preference comment: As I have stated before, while the preferences ('build-oftens') are a factor - they are not nearly as great a factor as many have assumed in the past.

    The only way to consistantly get the AI to choose Commie over Fascism is to do the following: 1) Change every civs shunned government to Fascism. 2) Lower Fascism from nuisence corruption to problematic. Once you do this EVERY AI will choose commie over fascism, or switch to commie from fascism once the tech is researched or bought.

    Ision

    Ision
     
  5. rtdoplex

    rtdoplex Chieftain

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    Good write up. IMO, they are the best civ in the game. Especially deadly on multiplayer.
     
  6. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    I would agree but some civs are better at lower difficulty levels. I find the Industrial, Commercial and Agricultural(my personal playstyle BTW- yours may vary) traits to be the best at the higher difficulty levels and are 3 traits that have a constant effect. The Iro get 2 out of 3 of these and a great UU.
     
  7. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    Hi Ision,

    I agree. This is mainly due to the fact that Facism seems to be favored in AI research and trade over communism - they get it earlier, so they become facist instead of communist.

    In my recent game (C3C 1.15), the Iroquis became COMMUNIST. I was so excited about it that I posted this in the "General Discussion" Forum. Unfortunately only few reacted, one reaction being "point being"? :)

    I do not know whether you are right or wrong regarding the build preferences, I trust you that your observations are right.

    But the Iroquis have by far the most promising set of features, and this really seems to pay off in real gameplay. OK, I did only play 1 game for several month now, but before they were always in my games, due to the American civ bug of culturally linked starting position. They were always supreme even to the Mayans, who are regarded by many as one of the inherently most powerful civs, too.
     
  8. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    I experienced this too; most AIs will go fascist, but there a usually one or two(playing huge map, with 16 players, usually 10-12 made in in the industrial age) in my games which choose communism.I see no clear pattern, but it seems to be more liekly if they get communism first (I remember not a single switch from fascism to communism and only one from communism to fascism) and there empire is spread out(which makes sence).The prefered/shunned goverments may have an slight influence too, I remember Russia and the Iroquis more often to be in communsim than others.

    I wonder if there is a way to mod communsim and fascism the way the AI is able to choose effective between them instead of simply choosing almost always only one of them.
     
  9. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Well, your choice is logical. No matter what style of game you play, conquest, build up, whatever:
    Agricultural will always be good (food is the only city production that is not affected by corrupiton at all)
    Industrous will always be good (everybody strat needs tiles improvements asap)
    Commercial is in effect like a second corthouse (now who would not like that?)
     
  10. Megabyte

    Megabyte Emperor

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    Hi folks !

    According to Pfeffersack , is there a way to mod Fascism , so the AI would choose between Communism or Fascism depending on its empires situation ?

    have fun everybody !!
     
  11. Ision

    Ision Master

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    Zard,

    I must say, this was an excellent review - a bit TOO good actually!

    I do NOT appreciate your extra effort!

    Ision
     
  12. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Sorry. :D

    I'll make my next one worse for you.
     
  13. Kiech

    Kiech King

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    Recently played a few games with these guys, very nice civ! Quite a shame that I never got to use the UU.

    Commercial: More USEFUL cities!
    Agricultural: Larger cities faster!
     
  14. wisewood

    wisewood Chieftain

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    HI ISION,

    I have a question. What does favorite goverment actually mean?Are the people happier in the favorite kind of goverment? Is it worth it to stay in communism (as Iroqois) or switch to democracy? Can you elaborate on this.
     
  15. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    For the human player the only effect is that AIs which have your current goverment as favourite will have abetter opinion towards the player (just the opposite for shunned government).There is no benefit from the government it self if you match your civs favourite.
    It might have a slight influence on the AIs choice of government, but in the first line the decision is made about the strength and weaknesses of each government in comparison with the current situation the AI is in.
     
  16. al_thor

    al_thor Prince

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    I play Conquests (so Iroquois are Agr/Comm) at the Emporer or Demigod levels. I have played and won on both levels with 6 or 7 different civs. When I visited my Hall of Fame screen the other day, the two Iroquois victories are the BEST scores by far.

    What I like to do with the Iroquois is, build mostly Spear/Archer/Sword for offense or defense during the Ancient Age. However, I always have like a 'background' build of a store of MW that I never use. Then, when I convert to Monarchy or Republic, I bring that stash out and quickly dominate my neighbor. The other advantage to this is that you can spend your Golden Age building infrastrucure instead of units.
     
  17. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    I am just playing the Iroquois, and I will not trade for Chivalry in the early MA or even research it.

    Why?

    The Mounted Warrior can even fight against pikemen, Spearman are better. They key is to swamp the enemy in the Early Middle Ages with hordes of Mounted Warriors.

    Things to consider:

    70 Shields -> 1 Knight
    60 Shields -> Knight UU, like the Ansar e.g.
    30 Shields -> Mounted Warrior

    4.3.2 vs 3.21

    you have twice the number of Mounted Warriors, probably more than your Republic can support, but I did it succesfully in spite of 70+ unit support cost.

    Just overrun your enemy with sheer numbers of "fast" units that can retreat and heal!

    You probably do better without Knights, I had no Iron and had to trade for it until I recognized that the MW's are actually a very good Knight substitute without Iron and an optional tech.
     
  18. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Longasc- I agree with most of what you said. I believe I covered the retreat ability in my article and a big enough swarm can overun a pikemen defended city and have a decent chance at survival. At that point of the game they're also cheap to replace. They in my personal top 5 UU list (+Ansars, Immortals, Riders and Hoplites)
     
  19. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    Well, Ision even told me not to care so much about the Great Library, but I did not really recognize it until I tried it myself. :)

    The Iroquis war ponies are also cool to behold... a bit strange to see them fight Knights, but well. :)
     
  20. dgfred

    dgfred Sports Freak

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    I also like the Iroquois and play mostly on emperor ;) . As you do I try to hold off my GA until medieval times :D and smash them with MWs. I also
    hold off my GA the same way when playing as Celts :mischief: . Works Great!
     

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