Since an argument about Diamond in another thread drifted beyond the purpose of the OP, I have created a new thread in which to discuss his ideas. For those who have not read Guns, Germs and Steel, its thesis is that all important differences between human societies are the result of differences in geography.
My contention in this thread is that Diamond fails to make the case for geocentricity in history.
I intend to use the space below to quote for reference previous posts from the debate in the other thread.
My contention in this thread is that Diamond fails to make the case for geocentricity in history.
I intend to use the space below to quote for reference previous posts from the debate in the other thread.
Atropos said:The worst argument I ever saw was in a book by Jared Diamond called Guns, Germs and Steel - a book which, amazingly, is actually used in university courses in anthropology.
Diamond's thesis in that work was that human development was the product of geography rather than the differing use of geography by its inhabitants. To substantiate this, Diamon was trying to prove that the Fertile Crescent was better suited to the initial development of human civilization than any place outside Eurasia. In the course of this exposition, he committed at least half a dozen gross logical errors, but the worst came when he was trying to prove that Fertile Crescent crops were better suited to cultivation than those of any other region outside Eurasia. As an example, he chose New Guinea. In his view, New Guinea has no indigenous arigable crops.
He "proved" this statement - after acknowledging that he had not in fact bothered to inspect the known data on the known plants of New Guinea to see if any of them might in fact be arigable - by reporting on a visit he made to an aboriginal campsite. He commented that he saw the aborigines using the rubbish he left behind and the gifts he gave them for every conceivable purpose. (Example: one of them was wearing a pencil as a nose ornament). He concluded that a people so ingenious could not possibly have overlooked useful crops.
Look at the beginning of Diamond's argument again. Look at it carefully, because it's obvious that he didn't.
Diamond was trying to prove that differences in development are not the result of differing ingenuity among the local inhabitants. His evidence for this was that the inhabitants of New Guinea are ingenious. In other words, the argument is completely circular.
By the way, it's also factually wrong. The biologist E. O. Wilson has shown in his book "The Diversity of Life" that New Guinea has a variety of species of legume suitable for cultivation.
CarlosMM said:a) he did not use this as proof, but indidaction - maybe you bother to learn the difference?
b) you omit about 95% of his line of argument
c) so what if there are legumes suitable for cultivation today? The question must be whether they were suitable before comparable crops where introduced from elsewhere....
which brings me to my personal favorite of stupid argument:
The argument from misrepresentation, (intentional) misunderstanding and omission.
Most commonly used by Creationists of many colors. Shortest version: 'I do not understand how the big bang can make apes become humans, so God must have created the earth'
Atropos said:Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosMM
a) he did not use this as proof, but indidaction - maybe you bother to learn the difference?
Funny, I've never heard of indidaction. Maybe you mean induction? In any case, he was wrong. Would you question that? If so, read the relevant chapter in the book I cited.
Quote:
b) you omit about 95% of his line of argument
True. Where did I say that I was citing the book's arguments in their entirety? I was referring to one example of a false argument, taken from a much more elaborate structure of arguments. That should have been clear from the original post.
Most of the rest of his argument, by the way, is equally flawed. I would be happy to discuss this in a separate thread.
Quote:
c) so what if there are legumes suitable for cultivation today? The question must be whether they were suitable before comparable crops where introduced from elsewhere....
The "supermarket bean" to which E. O. Wilson refers is indigenous to New Guinea. Again, before knocking it, read it.
Quote:
which brings me to my personal favorite of stupid argument:
The argument from misrepresentation, (intentional) misunderstanding and omission.
Most commonly used by Creationists of many colors. Shortest version: 'I do not understand how the big bang can make apes become humans, so God must have created the earth'
I, too, loathe this argument in all of its many forms. /coughs meaningfully
EDIT: By the way, before you dismiss E. O. Wilson as some right-wing fruitcake, the cited chapter is from a book on evolution whose primary purpose is a plea to save biodiversity (hence the title).