The Kremlin is not The Kremlin

[Rhye]

I can't believe there's people in the western world who doesn't even know what USSR is and where it is.

The way History is teached in some countries is even more shocking. Like Australia focusing just on Australian origins, and world wars.
In Italy the 20th century is 1/5 of the total school course. The other fifths regarding egypt, greece, rome, middle ages (in europe and middle east), age of discoveries (including America), french rev. and napoleonic era, industrial age (with focus on both Europe and Italy)

 

[Reveilled]

I can't believe there's people in the western world who doesn't even know what USSR is and where it is.

The way History is teached in some countries is even more shocking. Like Australia focusing just on Australian origins, and world wars.
In Italy the 20th century is 1/5 of the total school course. The other fifths regarding egypt, greece, rome, middle ages (in europe and middle east), age of discoveries (including America), french rev. and napoleonic era, industrial age (with focus on both Europe and Italy)

In Scotland, we do WWII in our last year of Primary School (ages 10-11), and the rest of the compulsory history lessons are on Scottish History. From age 13 onward history lessons are optional (that is, the pupil selects if they wish to study History, Geography or Modern Studies, which is a fancy word for Politics), and covers WWI, and either the interwar years or the Russian Revolution. Aside from the Scottish History we do (which is laced with character, murder and intrigue, as opposed to the god-awfully boring statistics and legislation of studying the Interwar Years), your curriculum sounds much more interesting. I might have actually done History if all that was included.

 

[HermanVonPetri]

I can't believe there's people in the western world who doesn't even know what USSR is and where it is.

Umm, it would be a more convincing argument if you had mentioned that the USSR actually doesn't exist anymore. I'm not trying to be mean, you may have just confused your tenses.

 

[chinesefireball]

Gibe it another 10/20 years - then it will make it in the curriculum.

Actually to be fair I think we did something on the cold war - reds under the bed, and the spread of communism. But then I never really spent much time on history when we were doing the later 20 century - I had some bad teachers.

Look at world events that happened around your birth year - give or take 7 years. I would be suprised if you were taught about these events when you start school. The same is with me and the collapse of communism and the USSR

 

[Rhye]

I have not confused my tenses.

it's a shame that even scottish system is that way.

We repeat the full course (from dawn of man to cold war (usually teachers have no time to go past the 60s)), in primary school, intermediate school and secondary school, if secondary school is a lycaeum. If it is a low-level technical school, the course starts from french revolution only and reaches nowadays.
In any case, it is compulsory. When you retire from school, you do know many thing about the Romans, the Etruscans, and even distant things like the arab expansion (with the ill-famed Pirenne's thesis) or the russian revolution of 1917. It a shame though that we don't cover absolutely anything regarding far east. Nothing at all about Japan, China, Korea or India.

 

[vinstafresh]

I didn't know that this wasn't the Kremlin, but at the time I wasn't intested in politics and modern history.

People are often taught national history in schools, not world history. In Holland, they focused on politics and not on religion, culture and technology. The game Civilization caters to my historic interests spot-on.

During my Latin and Greek classes back in high school, I was taught about the Romans and Greeks and their mythology and stories. People normally only know something about the Trojan War and perhaps they heard about the Odyssey and the Ilias. It's mostly about interests, most of you probably don't know how to fix your car, your plumbing or how to set up your own retail-business... To each their own...

 

[HermanVonPetri]

I have not confused my tenses.

Keep in mind that I mean this in all good humor. But is it your position that the USSR still exists?

 

[siberfox]

Hi,
from what I learned in a russian school in Siberia:

1) The first Kremlin (fortress) in Moscow's center was made of wood, the second (14th century) of the white bricks, the third (current, 15th centrury) of the red bricks. The name "krasnaya" square already existed in this time. => Therefore the red brick is not the origin of the square's name.

2) "krasnaya" meant beautiful in the old russian language ("krasa"=beauty). For example "krasnaya devka" meant "beautiful girl" and not "red girl"
Now "krasnaya" means only red. "Kraseevaya" means beautiful.

So the translation is false.
Some of my fellow countrymen can confirm this statements, I hope.

 

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Well, they probably used something resembling St. Basil's just so the average "man in the street" would know it's Russian. After all, in American cinema, St. Basil's Cathedral is Moscow's Eiffel Tower: it's everywhere!

I was wondering if, to make it more appropriate to be acquired with Communism, Firaxis should've gone with the Palace of the Soviets. Then again, it was never built, so I guess that doesn't count.

Artist's conception of the Palace. Makes the Colossus look like G.I. Joe doll.

 

[Rhye]

Keep in mind that I mean this in all good humor. But is it your position that the USSR still exists?

sorry i misunderstood. Of course it doesn't exists anymore, but Russian region is still there.

 

[Ulfang]

The building they used for the Kremlin is not the Kremlin It's a church located near the Kremlin on the Red Square (St.Basil Cathedral i think). The Kremlin is the fortification built from red bricks and the area inside...

I hate to admit it but a couple of years ago I would have thought it to be the Kremlin too. My wife is Russian and the first time I visited Moscow just over 2 yrs ago we visited Red Square and I saw the Cathedral and said "oh Look its the Kremin!"

My wife just looked at me as if I was nuts and said "Um that St Basil's (they pronounced it bay-zil) Cathedral...."

I was like no it can't be everytime I see the Kremlin on the News its that place *points at the Cathedral* Was quite disappointed but the Kremlin itself is a very impressive building and HUGE. I went to see a Mariah Carey Concert there in one of the many public parts of the building.

 

[Luv_Muffin]

...My wife is Russian and the first time I visited Moscow just over 2 yrs ago we visited Red Square and I saw the Cathedral and said "oh Look its the Kremin!"

My wife just looked at me as if I was nuts and said "Um that St Basil's (they pronounced it bay-zil) Cathedral...."

Heh heh. Mrs. Muffin is Estonian, and I've been asking her a lot of questions about this. I've been treated to a long discussion on Russian history, the current status of these landmarks and their historical place (pre-USSR as well). I think that I got more information than I was asking for. (Even a little story about Ivan the Terrible blinding people, should call him "Ivan the Jerk") Heh heh. My wife isn't a fan of Russia, but she has actually been to these places. Kind of odd, thinking about it, we grew up as national enemies, and then got married.

I guess I did my part for world peace. If you can't beat 'em, marry them.

 

[perryrutherford]

broadway, rock and roll, and the statue of liberty are all bad wonder choices as well. hollywood is questionable.

a significant portion of my ancestry is russian, so i didn't meant to slight russia at all. i just see the kremlin as out of place among things like the pyramids and the apollo program.

I think St. Basil's is the most beautiful landmark in the kremlin. Also I think since Rise of Nations used st. basil as the most prominant feature of the Kremlin in that game's wonders.

I'm kinda miffed at how they make a point of wonders being buildings (taking out darwin and magellean from previous installments) where holiwood/broadway/rock and roll aren't buildings at all -- at least broadway has buildings that are closely associated with it, but the magic is the culture that happens inside, the buildings for these 'buildings' aren't wonders at all.

Looks like too many cooks in the pot.

As for Kremlin not being on par with Pyramids (and great wall -- wha? no great wall!?!!) It is certainly a better choice than these American 'wonders'. I will also go so far as to say it has played a bigger role in world history than the Collosus or other 'real' wonders.

The whole point was to optimize the game to be fun. But having to build wonders three times to get 'hits' luxories is not very fun IMO.

 

[Jabba]

Hi,
from what I learned in a russian school in Siberia:

1) The first Kremlin (fortress) in Moscow's center was made of wood, the second (14th century) of the white bricks, the third (current, 15th centrury) of the red bricks. The name "krasnaya" square already existed in this time. => Therefore the red brick is not the origin of the square's name.

2) "krasnaya" meant beautiful in the old russian language ("krasa"=beauty). For example "krasnaya devka" meant "beautiful girl" and not "red girl"
Now "krasnaya" means only red. "Kraseevaya" means beautiful.

So the translation is false.
Some of my fellow countrymen can confirm this statements, I hope.

The translation isn't false. Because like you say, in modern Russian "krasnaya" means red and not beautiful. It's not like, when a Russian hears "Krasnaya" Square he thinks: "Ah, yes, Beautiful Square". He thinks "Red Square" just like the rest of us do. It's just that the meaning of the word has changed since the square was named several hundred years ago.

I'm astonished by all these people saying they had to use St Basil's because people in the West wouldn't recognize the Kremlin. Don't they ever watch the news? Big red fortress with a big tower with a red star on top? Often see journos standing in front of it looking cold? That's the Kremlin.

 

[hajmyis]

the Kremlin is not a building...it is just a term, and that church is just part of the kremlin and is it reowned all over the world as a sybolm of the kremiln

 

[Jabba]

the Kremlin is not a building...it is just a term, and that church is just part of the kremlin and is it reowned all over the world as a sybolm of the kremiln

Depends if you regard a fortress as a building. The Kremlin has walls all the way round. But inside there are several buildings.

St Basil's is not part of the Kremlin. It's outside the walls, next to it on Red Square.

 

[akots]

the Kremlin is not a building...it is just a term, and that church is just part of the kremlin and is it reowned all over the world as a sybolm of the kremiln

Well, it is the building if you consider fortress a building or system of buildings. And the Cathedral is not part of Kremlin. It stands separately even not directly in the Red Square.

Crossposted with Jabba.

 

[akots]

Hi, ...

Wellcome to CFC!!! Indeed, everything you said is true.

 

[KingAl]

it would of made more sense to instead put a picutre of the red square, where stalin marched his troops and tanks all the time.

I'm intentionally being droll, but there wouldn't be much 'wonder' in a red square wonder: the amazing, time delay tile laying.

 

[BruceLeeee]

Japan, a nation I respect, is actually going through a revisionist movement. Part of the education and media system is in severe denial of what happened during WWII. That's much worse than insufficient history education. It's kind of like a dad saying, "no son, we did not drop those nukes on Japan, they fell by accident." Psychiatrists serious needed here.