The Law of the Sea, killing units without consequences?

Are you on board with the "Law of the Sea" proposal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 60.0%
  • Maybe...if...

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • Sea of what?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You mean desert raiders? The Ark of the Covenant can be stolen?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Can we store plutonium in a caravel or it would catch fire?

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15

Lazy sweeper

Mooooo Cra Chirp Fssss Miaouw is a game of words
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Messages
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I remember in civ II you could kill whatever unit, and be killed of course, by any enemy unit, on neutral grounds without any consequences.
I think this mechanic was spot on, even in recent, modern times we could still argue it is a valid argument to say that, like in International water there
is a "Law of the Sea", which is a complex amalgamation of different interpretation of maritime laws. It has always been like this.
Like for example if you find a ship without crew you can legally take ownership of that ship. Similarly, if someone kills an entire ship crew on high sea,
and nobody is there to testimony, and later docks with said ship and says "we just found it wandering without crew so we took it and now it's our's"
The law of the Sea can't do anything about the killing. Much less if the ship had a flag of a country, the country declare war on the other country to which
the boarding party ship belonged to.

But it looks like now there are satellites even in 45600 BC and the Big Brother Everseeing Eye will not allow any such terrible crimes to happen.
So we can't kill an enemy scout, explorer, without consequences.
We can not sink an enemy ship, nor stole its treasures, even if there is no-one else in sight for hundreds of miles in every directions.
We can not capture a settler and reduce it to slavery.
But could we mine a border and if an enemy unit passes on it get killed, there was a sign, saying " MINEFIELD" or
"private property", tou will be shoot if crossing illegally. The same reasoning applies to land as well, and there should not be any
diplomatic triggers if any sort. Much less if you kill an enemy explorer in the middle of a jungle with a set of wooden traps...

Even inside a player territory, ambushes always happened, and the perpetrators happily got away with it.
In Civ IV this mechanic was called Espionage but literally it took the fun of the ambush part away.
Ancient sites protection efforts required traps everywhere and hundreds of Archeologists, or "Looters of ancient artefacts" (Gold idols smelted into coins etc)
found DEATH near or inside ancient sites because either of static traps, poison, or a combination of both, with usually some members of the ancient cult
involved in the killing in order to preserve their heritage...

Explorers are the seed of Materialism and Evil in the Eye of the Beholder!

Everything is now digital. The resources are digital. The Gold is digital. The Luxuries are digital.
There is no way to intercept a train full of gold and sack it like the Vandals did with Rome treasury.

The "Law of the Sea" I see it as possible expansion, where every goods in the game, has to have a physical copy of it.
It can be burned, looted, traded, stored, duplicated... particularly with the treasure fleets I found irritating that the ever vigilant
Cpt. Drake of ther Majesty fleet, can not properly get hold of all that gold and silver, stolen from the Inca, Mayan, and Aztec civilizations.
And either that later, the same Mayan, Incan, and Mexicans, can not properly retaliate back and steal back what was their's.
Also there must be at least one unit in sight of the killing for a Civilization to be able to add a greviance to another Civilization, not even
straight "you have to declare war" first. None of that shall be present anymore. And static traps and Minefields should also be a thing.
Death penalty for trespassing a thing. But no more no trespassing without a declaration of war.
The Law of the Sea is very clear in that a ship bearing a flag of a Nation, that is not a military ship, can enter National waters of every country, without
consequences. Even military ships can enter National waters of foreign nations, when they are not posing a direct threat to National security.
The game should mirror those laws. How many times a city state has blocked your galley from exploration back in Civ IV, V and VI?
No such thing existed in Civ II and III and it has to come back.



I mean, the game is almost an RPG now, so to add storage capabilities to single units, an inventory for both units and buildings,
not just "Artifacts"; which are somewhat the closest thing Civ has ever had to a Physical object of a Digital good in the game.
Should be possible to envision.

Look at Skyrim. Look at Eve Online, where only gold or Plexes as it's called there, cannot be looted as it is basically real money in game,
so it is good it remains digital. Everything else, can be stolen, traded, sold, bought, destroyed, and with Blueprints technology also manufactured.
Much like in Civ VI with the advance economic Luxury Monopoly upgraded Manufactories cities could produce extra luxuries every X turns.

A shift is necessary.

Who is on board?
 
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You and I have a very different memory of Civ2.
Well I played Call to power II a lot more than Civ II...
at 7:43 you can see a cup of tea or medicines travelling along a commercial route line between two cities.
There has been so many revisions that It's impossible two persons can agree on Civ II experience...
Civ II by Microprose Test of Time is another game from its Civ II father.
Civ II had no visible borders whatsoever. Call to power and Alpha Centaury had borders...
Combat diplomacy on neutral ground... everywhere is neutral ground in Civ II!!!
Call to Power II was my game, and Civ III took all the best part of it, and left out a LOT. Like undersea cities... Magrails... etc etc etc...

Piracy was not either condemned on land or sea with a straight declaration of war trigger...
Screenshot 2025-03-05 at 02.39.19.png
 
I thought the "law of the sea" was the old tradition of drawing lots and eating the loser if folks were shipwrecked without food. I didn't remember that at all in civ.

Edit: Never mind, that's apparently the "custom of the sea"
 
heh. Pirating trade routes. The AI did a lot of that.
(and so did the barbs)

CTP1 : stationing units all over the bloody place just to stop barb spawning.
(until you got the nice towers) :)

Would LOVE to see CTP done for modern rigs.
 
I never played Civ II so don't know how it worked before. But I think something like this would be great given the ages system. No consequences in Antiquity for battles in neutral territory. Minor consequences or maybe free war support in Exploration. In Modern you could use the existing rules so you have to declare war to attack.
 
I think privateers (and later on subs) were good fun taking down AI and player troops without provoking war. Now they focus on... what exactly..? It slipped on my mind... oh yeah. Profits.
 
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