The Light and Dark Sides of OT - Splitting of the OT, A Proposal

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Stapel
If it has to be done, I think we should make a political & religions thread and an OT thread. Current events are not to be seperated. A politician saying something about homosexuality goes into P&R, the death of Charles B. goes into OT.

Of course, that has always been my intention.

The more cerebral threads will go into the new forum; all others stay. As simple as that.

XIII, I completely fail to see how a split-up would prevent a political fall-out driving out regular posters. May I conclude you are pushing a bit? Why do you want this split-up so bad?

Let's just say - I've many connections.

Truth to tell - I want to drive politics out of CFC altogether. They don't add any value at all to our main franchise as a Civ site, and prove altogether just too contentious for any good. And takes up loads of time to mod.

But I'll settle for putting them in their own forum.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by XIII
Truth to tell - I want to drive politics out of CFC altogether. They don't add any value at all to our main franchise as a Civ site, and prove altogether just too contentious for any good. And takes up loads of time to mod.

But I'll settle for putting them in their own forum.

And what exactly is this 'main franchise' of this CIV site?

95% of my nowadays posts are in the Colosseum. Especially political and religious debates are what I like here! So to me they are the main franchise.

I'd also like to say that for CIV III related stuff (appearently the main franchise in your opinion), I have chosen another forum above CFC, for I think that CFC has too strict rules on no-cd patches (in case of difference between US / UK versions ) and a pretty annoying tournament moderation. I am very sorry to say so, but I am not the only one thinking this way!

OT and its political debates are what makes this forum a great forum! Getting rid of them, or, as a 'settlement' putting them in their own little corner, will not help getting more older posters. It will probably do the opposite!

 

[Pongui]

Originally posted by XIII
The more cerebral threads will go into the new forum; all others stay.

Less cerebral, lite, off topic. Sounds like the definition - no -an invitation to spam.

Originally posted by XIII
They don't add any value at all to our main franchise as a Civ site

Civ players may not be the most general demographic group of game players, with the most common tastes. Maybe we should accept that? I don't know that manipulating the forums will affect the types of people who love this game and enter the forums.

But if this detour scheme discourages no one, or even makes posters more comfortable, it's a good scheme. I voted "no" but don't mind trying it. We'll learn soon enough if this works.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Why shld a Civ site provide support and moderators (!) for political arguments then?

We need to relook at our organisational objective, like I've told TF. We're not a politics site you know - we're a Civ site.

Looking at the oldest Staff threads, I know politics is only tolerated in OT originally; not exactly encouraged.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Sean Lindstrom
Less cerebral, lite, off topic. Sounds like the definition - no -an invitation to spam.

I've never really think spam is that bad, as compared with the flaming and trolling that go on all too often in these politics threads. Can anyone seriously admit that they can come out of a politics thread, with good comradely feeling, after arguing with someone?

Anyone looking at my PC shld be able to tell.

But if this detour scheme discourages no one, or even makes posters more comfortable, it's a good scheme. I voted "no" but don't mind trying it. We'll learn soon enough if this works.

Like TF said, we can always re-merge the two forums, if things don't work out.

It's not a one-shot thing.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Stapel
And what exactly is this 'main franchise' of this CIV site?

To clarify on this, I mean as in the non-game sections shld provide support for the main CFC objective of providing a place on the Net for Civ lovers to hang out, harmoniously.

Political threads don't do that and drive many weary vets elsewhere.

OT and its political debates are what makes this forum a great forum! Getting rid of them, or, as a 'settlement' putting them in their own little corner, will not help getting more older posters. It will probably do the opposite!

Most are already gone.

I'm seizing this opportunity to remake the OT, before going out to lure some freshies fr the game sections.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by XIII
Why shld a Civ site provide support and moderators (!) for political arguments then?

We need to relook at our organisational objective, like I've told TF. We're not a politics site you know - we're a Civ site.

Looking at the oldest Staff threads, I know politics is only tolerated in OT originally; not exactly encouraged.

Why should a Civ site provide support and moderators for anything not civ-related? For heaven's sake: you are a colosseum moderator and by definition the colosseum is not civ-related.

Your point makes no sense!

Edit: clarified in the post above. Thanks XIII!

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by XIII
Political threads don't do that and drive many weary vets elsewhere.

Most are already gone.

But the vets WANT to debate politics!

The only effect of splitting up politics is that it will drive the vets that are still here elsewhere too!

 

[Mark Young]

Originally posted by Stapel

OT and its political debates are what makes this forum a great forum! Getting rid of them, or, as a 'settlement' putting them in their own little corner, will not help getting more older posters. It will probably do the opposite!

I disagree. How is sub-dividing the forum more than what it already is, putting it into a corner? It will take just 1 more click to access it from the main forum page.
One of the reasons I think that the older people may have left is because when you post in one of the said threads, often your point of view is totaly misinterpretted or that people are more intersted in pushing their own point of view rather than engaging in a mature debate.
This can be quite discouraging as it makes you feel like why the heck should I post an opinion when it's just going to be berrated cause it's not someone else's way at looking at it.

 

[FredLC]

I'll pair with Stapel here.

Quite frankly, I don't have so many doubts about the game CIV3; when I do, I'll post about it, but it only happened oftenly when I first begun to play. Right now, what really keeps me liking this forum is exactly the fact that I've been able to speak about controversial issues and that I found great heads with a varied array of opinions.

I've been to other forums, with lighter tendencies; I know at least one that has exactly the frame you seen to desire for the ot, there is, a place to light-hearted discussions.

Despite I like it, it does not capture me like the OT does... even tough it also has a lot of familiar faces from here.

Besides, the main idea here is a bit weird. It's being said that this change never happened before because some of the old-fashioned posters were against it... and now, the change will be made because it's supposed that it would have prevented them from leaving? Is that really it, or am I missing something here?

Anyway, I see that the votes for "no" have, for now, surpassed the "yes" in the poll. I think it's for the best, but let's see how it goes. By the way, is there a deadline to vote here?

Regards .

 

[cgannon64]

No. Having them combined gets my favorite feel, that of being at a quiet party or a gathering. You can have heated political debates with your friends while someone right next to you can be cracking a joke or playing a silly game.

Hmm...is the forum devided into OT Nationalists and OT Seperatists?

 

[Aphex_Twin]

We have to keep in mind that not all members visit OT every day, to stay in touch with all the topics. It's very often that an interested thread gets buried under loads of "Pizza vs. Fries - the Good, the bad and the ugly". OT has become too big for it's pants.

 

[nihilistic]

OK, I'll make up 2 lists: One of things that I think WILL happen, and another of pure conjectures of the counsequences of 2 OT forums:

Things that WILL Happen:

1. People confusing the "Light OT" with "Humor & Jokes".

2. Mass routing of threads from one OT forum to another and vice versa. Posters might not know where to post, or want to pretend that they do not know. This means more work for you, mods (and maybe more chances for you to exercise your hobby, XIII ).

3. Many posters will get annoyed from having to bounce from one forum to the other just to stay in OT. Personally, I don't mind this one as I have all the shortcuts set up aalready.

Conjectures (with significant implications)

1. One of the forums may be deserted. Eventually posters may figure out which OT forum ios more popular than the other, and post excusively in that one.

2. Posters might might become discouraged to visit as often. See post#48 by RedWolf.

3. I'll think of more ...

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by nihilistic
1. People confusing the "Light OT" with "Humor & Jokes".

Someone already said to combine them - which I'll look into, once OT Lite got straightened out.

2. Mass routing of threads from one OT forum to another and vice versa. Posters might not know where to post, or want to pretend that they do not know. This means more work for you, mods (and maybe more chances for you to exercise your hobby, XIII ).

Not much difference than coming back every weekend and then having to mod back into page 2, or even page 3. <shrugs>

3. Many posters will get annoyed from having to bounce from one forum to the other just to stay in OT. Personally, I don't mind this one as I have all the shortcuts set up aalready.

How much is this different fr switching betw pg 1 and pg 2?

OT, as it is, is too fast-paced; many casual lurkers who come by only every other few days will probably not be bothered to participate. Or lurk too much longer.

You'll have to admit - only those who come by day in and out can participate in OT to any extent.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by FredLC
Quite frankly, I don't have so many doubts about the game CIV3; when I do, I'll post about it, but it only happened oftenly when I first begun to play. Right now, what really keeps me liking this forum is exactly the fact that I've been able to speak about controversial issues and that I found great heads with a varied array of opinions.

You can still do that - in a new forum. It's not like politics is being totally banned.

I've been to other forums, with lighter tendencies; I know at least one that has exactly the frame you seen to desire for the ot, there is, a place to light-hearted discussions.

Yes, I know.

Thanks for sticking with us here. But too few, way too few...

Besides, the main idea here is a bit weird. It's being said that this change never happened before because some of the old-fashioned posters were against it... and now, the change will be made because it's supposed that it would have prevented them from leaving? Is that really it, or am I missing something here?

Yep, they were against it - the old proposal. And then they left! For places with no politics! Incl some who're total political animals!

I see no point in sticking to the status quo, with this happening. Like I said, I doubt any is coming back. I'm remaking the OT - for a future OT crowd, and incl as many of the present as we can hold on to.

Anyway, I see that the votes for "no" have, for now, surpassed the "yes" in the poll. I think it's for the best, but let's see how it goes. By the way, is there a deadline to vote here?

It's biased.

Obviously, a poll held in OT will be biased, 'cause many of the voters already here will be here 'cause they already like it here. Even so, there's still a strong 'Yes' contingent.

I'm going to move the poll to Site Feedback eventually, and angle for a more universal polling.

 

[floppa21]

Originally posted by FredLC
Well, personally, I am opposed.

I have a tendency to join the controversial devates, and the thing that drives me to participate in the trivialities is the fact that they are together and easily avaiable.

Where's your regards now huh? This is as far as I read and the end of the discussion for me. I'm with Fred. I would end up just going to one forum if this split took place. Not that it means much as I do not post in many many threads. Eh, whatever. :shrug:

 

[Bootstoots]

What do the other OT mods think about this?

 

[smalltalk]

Originally posted by XIII
OT, as it is, is too fast-paced; many casual lurkers who come by only every other few days will probably not be bothered to participate. Or lurk too much longer.

You'll have to admit - only those who come by day in and out can participate in OT to any extent.

I can testify on that. I've been away for a while. Only visiting once or twice a week for a short time. No real chance to follow anything.

OTOH, the total thread count would still be the same, whether there was one forum or two. So where's the improvement as long as I won't disregard one of the new forums entirely?

 

[Shadylookin]

I don't see how people can vote yes when the proposal has been changed so many times what they voted for might not be what happends. In the begining you said light and dark now I hear spliting it up into 3 different places, and i've also heard merging the off topic light with humor and jokes(sounds bad when you think about some light discussion and how not funny it is) NOw what is your final proposal. Is there a real reason too change, because I feel you just have some personal thing against a unified off topic.

The best thing that could happen would be 2 different catagories and nothing change. the worst on the other hand is dead boards topics being in the wrong place all the time, having to move from board to board(some may not consider this a problem, but every second of my life counts) people leaving because of the change. Why do you need to recruit more into the off topic? I know some people stayed here for the great discussions here(i do sorry civ has kinda bored me recently) but who has acctually joined a civ3 site just so they could participate in the off topic part?


SO...... Please leave off topic intact

 

[Benderino]

I vote NO!

There would be no way of creating a thread that reached out to all OTers. The important things in the OT forums are what keep it from merging with the "Humor and Jokes" Forum.