the logic of choosing the types of food resources

[kovacsflo]

In this thread I want to discuss the logic of choosing the types of food resources. Since I am a food engineer, I often asked myself why do we have crab, clam and deer in the game while for example potato doesn't appears in the game. First of all, we have to rethink the 3+1 category.



Human body needs three types of nutriments: carbohydrates (60%, especially starch), protein (20%), and fat (20%). In CIV4, there are only three starch based resource (wheat, rice and corn), while protein based resources reach the amount of 7!!! The other problem is that there are no oil seeds. Fat needing can be filled only with animal fat, but this isn't the healthiest way. The only logical "category" from this point of view is sugar based banana. 1out of 11, that's exactly what we need by sugar!

So all in all, there should be less protein based and more starch based resources, and maybe there should be oil seeds in the game, soybean, rape and/or sunflower.


Check what we have in the game:

-The category of grains is more than logical, the three types native in three continents, however in the big part of the world plants none of them, doing this without fearing the lack of starch, planning portato or some kind of cold-likeing grain.

-Stock: this is a logical category as well, but (as I mentioned) I don't think that we need all 4 of them.

-Seafood: the amount of fished clam or even crab much less than fish. I understand that the designers of the game wanted to create more kind of seafood, it makes more useful to build harbor (and maybe lighthouse), but it also results an other problem: there can be leaders with a relatively big coastline, not having fish just clam and crab. Could you imagine it in reality?

-Grocer resources: banana is okay, and I accept that the other three res. are naturally gives +1 happiness, after grocer +1 health, with the exception of sugar. Sugar cane or beet doesn't really matters, the game forgets that it. Producing sugar from beet is quite complicated, the best way would be if after discovering some technology (biology or industrialism) new sugar res. would be appear on the map! sugar beet wasn't planted when the technology wasn't avalaible, sugar cane needs a simplier way.

I'm wondering how will it interest you?

Flóri

 

[Urederra]

very good post, but... well, it is a game, and for a layman in food processing, their choices are good enough for a game.

After all, how much do you think they spent in choosing the food resources? Like five minutes? Did they have to be more accurate? i don't think so. I only wish they would have spent more time in designing better late game battle systems. Like the fact you can't bomb no city tiles with ships.

BTW, you forgot beans.

 

[Quagga]

So all in all, there should be less protein based and more starch based resources, and maybe there should be oil seeds in the game, soybean, rape and/or sunflower.

Would we find the potatoes only in the New World on the Terra map? Would olives count in the oil category? Could Fast Food be a new technology that increases commerce but decreases health? "You have discovered Pizza."

Is any of this subject to modding?

 

[kovacsflo]

Hi all!

very good post, but... well, it is a game, and for a layman in food processing, their choices are good enough for a game.

After all, how much do you think they spent in choosing the food resources? Like five minutes? Did they have to be more accurate? i don't think so. I only wish they would have spent more time in designing better late game battle systems. Like the fact you can't bomb no city tiles with ships.

BTW, you forgot beans.

You forgot that this game should be simulate reality, and in some cases it is successfull, but well, they should spent more time to choose food resources. I agree that ships should be able to bomb city tiles even if I'm a spaceship builder.

About beans: it is quite hard to categorize them, them contains both starch and protein, however it isn't so important that potato and sugar beet.

 

[kovacsflo]

Would we find the potatoes only in the New World on the Terra map? Would olives count in the oil category? Could Fast Food be a new technology that increases commerce but decreases health? "You have discovered Pizza."

Is any of this subject to modding?

Yes, potatoes should be appear only in the New World on the Terra map. Oliva? Hmm, it is a hard question, because the amount of planted oliva is small, but this is the healthiest oil seed.

About fast food problem: well, maybe there should be resources giving you happiness (maybe 2 directly) causing unhealthiness, the same way as for example cigarette does.

 

[Akka]

You say true things, but honestly, what we have in the game is real-like enough (not truly realistic, but has the appeareance of reasonnable amount of realism) that you are simply nitpicking.

Not that nitpicking is bad in any way, but it's certainly nothing to get riled on about

 

[Chamaedrys]

Yeah, the game includes the most important food resources, that's enough.

 

[kovacsflo]

you are simply nitpicking.
QUOTE]

I'm not nitplicking, I'm a food engineer!

Anyway, I'm wondering that a german boy doesn't agree that potato shuold be appear on map.

 

[Mango]

There's more than enough different types of food. Sure potatos are an important food crop, but not enough to warrant adding another food source.

The resources are broken down into the techs needed to work them. There are 11 food resources:

3 grains which require agriculture. 3 seafood which require fishing. 3 domesticated animals which require animal husbandry. 1 wild animal which requires hunting. 1 fruit which requires calender.

On top of that there is 1 food source that only appears in colder regions (deer) and another that only appears near the equator (banana).

I don't think there needs to be anything else. There are other things in the world that are FAR more important than potatos. Why isn't coffee in the game? Why isn't tea in the game? Coffee is the second most traded commodity in the world behind crude oil. Tea is second most popular drink in the world behind water. Both of those deserve to be in the game too, but if you put them there that would be 14 luxury resources (plus 3 more once you get Broadway, Rock N Roll and Hollywood). That's too many. The only thing I can think of is having more luxuries go obsolete, but whale, fur and ivory already go obsolete to keep it at 12 the entire game. It already doesn't make sense for fur to go obsolete. I can see taking out incense for tea but that's about it, and incense fills a specific role as a desert/plain resource.

Maybe Civ 5 will find a way to add some things without having too many resources on the map, but I feel if you added too many it would become overkill.

 

[BYC]

you are simply nitpicking.
QUOTE]

I'm not nitplicking, I'm a food engineer!

Anyway, I'm wondering that a german boy doesn't agree that potato shuold be appear on map.

If that's the case, then whoever drops the first nuke should pretty much win the game.

I'm an IT tech, but that doesn't mean I believe there should be much more focus on IT type techs in the game. If there was, there should be Computers, PC tech, laptops, Silicone should be added in the game, and faster production if silicone is in game, what about TCP/IP? Or Novell? Or Windows? Perhaps MS Outlook, Hotmail? Where are my search engines? Where's the porn? The spam? The hackers? The boardband? In fact, where is the telephone or telegram? No IMs? No MySpace?

This is why game shouldn't simulate life too much.

 

[kovacsflo]

There's more than enough different types of food. Sure potatos are an important food crop, but not enough to warrant adding another food source.

I wanted to say: 11 food resoureces are enough, but the type of them isn't good. As I mentioned, we eat much more starch than protein, that's the needing of human beeings. That's why the amount of starch based resources should be at least 6, but at least 4 (potato). I accept banana and, well deer, but not clam and/or crab. Clam and crab simply isn't important in any nation's nutrient rate.

 

[kovacsflo]

I'm an IT tech, but that doesn't mean I believe there should be much more focus on IT type techs in the game. If there was, there should be Computers, PC tech, laptops, Silicone should be added in the game, and faster production if silicone is in game, what about TCP/IP? Or Novell? Or Windows? Perhaps MS Outlook, Hotmail? Where are my search engines? Where's the porn? The spam? The hackers? The boardband? In fact, where is the telephone or telegram? No IMs? No MySpace?

This is why game shouldn't simulate life too much.

Well, I always feel when I discover radio and then computer that this is too big jumping, that's true. BUT: it would be simplier allowing colder regions to have (and export!) sugar by sugar beet.

 

[Mango]

I wanted to say: 11 food resoureces are enough, but the type of them isn't good. As I mentioned, we eat much more starch than protein, that's the needing of human beeings. That's why the amount of starch based resources should be at least 6, but at least 4 (potato). I accept banana and, well deer, but not clam and/or crab. Clam and crab simply isn't important in any nation's nutrient rate.

Clam and crab are there to diversify the food. If you took them out you should replace them with other seafood.

 

[ThomasHardy]

Some foods that should be in the game, but are not:

Olives
Soybeans
Peanuts
Almonds
Oranges
Apples

 

[weasel77066]

As far as a staple for adding a health bonus goes, I think salt should be very important resource in the game. Just for preserving and curing alone would make it practically a requirement for any urban environment before electricity, not to mention its other uses. I thought it was rather odd that it was left out completely

 

[Nicci]

Where's the porn?

porn should be in the game. it should have +5 happiness, with a negative impact on pop-growth, since there are two kinds of people: those who watch sports end those who do sports!

 

[kovacsflo]

Clam and crab are there to diversify the food. If you took them out you should replace them with other seafood.

What kind of seafood do you think?

 

[kovacsflo]

As far as a staple for adding a health bonus goes, I think salt should be very important resource in the game. Just for preserving and curing alone would make it practically a requirement for any urban environment before electricity, not to mention its other uses. I thought it was rather odd that it was left out completely

The keyword is salt, it would be much more realistic to have salt in the game instead of clam or crab. It would mainly appear on coastal tiles, but also in land squers.

 

[kovacsflo]

Some foods that should be in the game, but are not:

Olives
Soybeans
Peanuts
Almonds
Oranges
Apples

I don't want dramatical changes, just think over how would CIV4 more realistic and enjoyable at the same time. Only resource I accept from this list is soybean. This becomes more important if we speak about vegetarianism.

 

[Mango]

The keyword is salt, it would be much more realistic to have salt in the game instead of clam or crab. It would mainly appear on coastal tiles, but also in land squers.

That's not a bad idea. I think they wanted to make them seafood resources, and salt would fall under luxury. It also sort of borders on the spice resource, although spices appear in a different area than salt. Historically though salts were used to preserve meats, which is the same use spices served.

I still think coffee and tea are better choices, but again, it's hard to take out certain things because they have specified roles.