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The maze is madness!

vhhawk

Warlord
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
195
Location
Oklahoma City
OK, so I've been playing around on the various interesting sounding world configurations such as the wheel, the inland sea, and the ring, and I enjoyed all those games ... but then I chose the maze, and selected 1 tile wide, and oh my! This is insane! :crazyeye::crazyeye: It's 1868 and so far I have only succeeded in one conquest, a size 5 barbarian city. All my expansion has come through settling. My empire is basically a formless blob walled in by other formless blobs, racing to reach and settle the tundra before the others. It's become a cultural borders standoff such as I've never seen before. Fortunately everyone is more or less cozy, even my neighbors Kublai Khan and Montezuma, who are both incredibly friendly. :confused:

Anyone have interesting stories about an empire in "the maze"? This is nuts.
 
Can we see a screenshot please? In all my civ years I've never played the maze map so I'm intrigued to see how it looks in the late game.
 
Certainly. Let me see how to do this.. I hope I did this correctly. They're loaded as attachments (I think).

It's 1886, not 1868 as I said above. I must be having a dyslexia day. The first screenshot shows the Mongol border, and the second map is the big one. It's crazy. Probably doesn't help that I'm playing as Tokugawa.
 

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I get the feeling that forts + naval units could really break a map like this wide open :p.

Unfortunately it's not Beyond the Sword... no beaker count on the science slider. Would definitely make things even more interesting though, I'm sure.
 
I can't begin to imagine how many different bugs the AI would stumble across in this sort of map. Does the generator make an effort not to make certain tiles impassable, like with mountain peaks?

I can't think of a better way to describe those images than the OP did - madness! :lol:
 
Madness? No, this... is...

On topic: Yes, the maze script is really amazing, you should check out the Succession Game where we played Infinite City Sprawl on a modified maze map with deity opponents... Ofcourse we got bashed, but was fun nonetheless.
 
I get the feeling that forts + naval units could really break a map like this wide open :p.

GLH, anyone?

Btw, this map begs for Beserkers.
 
By the way I think trying to get the circumnavigation bonus on this map could be maddening. :p
 
@PieceOfMind, there appear to be no mountain peaks, but there is some sea ice that makes some areas impassable.

@Joshua368, actually I didn't know about the circumnavigation bonus :blush: until the message popped up onscreen that my galley had done the deed on its own auto-explore setting. It's a curious artifact of the map that all seas are coastal (no whales) and other than the sea ice, are accessible by coastal craft. I think in theory this means I can create submarine "mines" around my area as an early warning system.

Folks, I had to do some research to figure out what GLH, ICS, and TRE mean. Is there an acronyms thread around here? ;)

BTW, I never meant to get sucked into this black hole of time annihilation, but unfortunately I appear to be well within the Schwarzschild radius and only my posts here can get out. Please, send help....

Or not. :D
 
Looks like an interesting script, I will have to try it some day :D

GLH : Great LightHouse
ICS: Infinity City Spamming (or Sprawl), a strategy used in civ 1-3 consisting in spamming lots of small cities
TRE: Trade Route Economy, one of all of the xxx-economy
 
Sorry for causing the confusion... I just wanted to highlight that it plays right into a playstyle that has always broken gameplay in half in the civ series - an unlimited amount of cities.

Civ4 tries to prevent this - or at least slow the strategy down to the extent that it's not the oly valid choice - by the maintenance system. However, that's mostly averted by building the Great Lighthouse on maps where the vast majority of cities will be coastal. Since a narrow maze also makes it very easy to block off the AIs quite far away (without the usual risks: they won't share many border tiles, and can probably still expand away from you until they meet their other neighbour -> less likely to get them into warmonger mode) this kind of map encourages an one-dimensional approach to the game that makes many of its subtleties irrelevant.

I did a search for a comprehensive list of acronyms... unfortunately without success.
 
Sorry for causing the confusion... I just wanted to highlight that it plays right into a playstyle that has always broken gameplay in half in the civ series - an unlimited amount of cities.

Civ4 tries to prevent this - or at least slow the strategy down to the extent that it's not the oly valid choice - by the maintenance system. However, that's mostly averted by building the Great Lighthouse on maps where the vast majority of cities will be coastal. Since a narrow maze also makes it very easy to block off the AIs quite far away (without the usual risks: they won't share many border tiles, and can probably still expand away from you until they meet their other neighbour -> less likely to get them into warmonger mode) this kind of map encourages an one-dimensional approach to the game that makes many of its subtleties irrelevant.

Interesting. Every time I log on here I learn something new. I have been avoiding wonders that become obsolete but this makes a ton of sense.

Regarding acronyms, there is a Commonly Used Acronyms reference article although there are quite a few more suggested in various replies in the discussion topic for it that never made it onto the main list.

Great resource, thanks! And thank you all for the kind responses. I feel like a country mouse in the city with all the acronyms, but I'm learning.
 
No good maze stories? Ah well. Yesterday something funny happened to me. It's in the same map as above but I don't have a screen shot handy. Right after teching up to Musketmen, and using the draft (for the first time) to build up a standing army, I spent about 10 turns getting a killer stack of units over adjacent to Montezuma's land. One of his big cities was poorly defended by antiquated troops. Just as I was about to deliver the fait accompli on Monte, my good friend Kublai Khan DoWs me on my opposite border. So I spend the next ten turns turning my armies around and moving up to face KK. Having only galleys and twisty roads, this process is painfully slow.

Luckily my defenders at Kyoto repel his stack of cavalry and catapults long enough for my reinforcements to start arriving. Meanwhile, Louis XIV declared on me from my far eastern frontier. Before L14 could arrive though, I teched up to Riflemen and took out Kublai's nearest city, Karakorum. It's hidden behind the "what name?" popup above. The weird thing is that despite that fact that this city has the Taj Mahal, my headway in expanding the borders and claiming more of the Khan's land is painfully slow. So I changed tactics.

After taking that city, my army was like the bloody bunch at Valley Forge, shoeless, half dead, and starving. So I buried the hatchet with the Mongols, bought off peace with the French, and built up my science until I got Defensive Pacts. I now have DP's with Cyrus (on Kublai's northwest flank) and Roosevelt (on Kublai's eastern flank). But I am itching for some more Mongol land, so I've been taunting Kublai every turn now. He's at like -22 in his antipathy for me. I'm just going to keep demanding stuff from him until he blows! When that happens, his goose is cooked. :lol:

I haven't had so much fun with foreign relations ... ever.
 
Lol get em vhhawk! Good call on the DP's on your nearest opponents farsides...Entangling Alliances ftw!
 
:crazyeye: Well to finish out this one, my strategy to break Kublai didn't work. He apparently was too smart to DoW with my defensive pacts in place. (Who'd a thunk it?) With the big time clock ticking down, a domination victory not in the cards, friendship with Roosevelt on the other side of the planet, and a snug relationship with Cyrus on my north border, I decided to go after one of my neighbors: Kublai, Montezuma, or Louis XIV. LXIV was problematic because of distance. Monte had somehow teched ahead to rocketry and had SAM infantry while I was still at musketmen. That left Kublai. And I was still ticked off at him because somehow despite conquering mighty Karakorum, his culture still enveloped the city on 3 sides for years and years.

I DoW'd Kublai and went after his next city, Ning-Hsia, I think.Well, he apparently had a pact with LXIV so now I'm at war with the French too. This whole thing is a long and bloody drawn-out affair. I eventually march slowly through twisty Mongol land, taking 4 of his cities, while keeping the French at bay on my far border. I got lucky in that I had some ships stationed at my city nearest LXIV, and picked off the French fleet one by one, which forced Louis to march his stacks step by step through a long no-man's land. His stacks never made it to my cities before I teched up to destroyers and began harrassing his waters. I took Chartres (which revolted twice, but I kept the city), and kept naval pressure on him until I saw a battleship in his waters, at which point I sued for peace, and he agreed. He had one city, Besancon, which was a thorn in my side and would continue to be, but I didn't have the muscle to root him out of it. Back on the Mongol front, I finally took Samarqand, leaving him with only 2 cities, and sued for peace. I had flight by this time, and a fleet of fighters constantly sniping his defenders to half strength, but the process was just ridiculously slow.

All this time, I had slowly risen from the lower ranks in terms of victory points, to second place behind Roosevelt. A few turns after peace fell upon us, I jumped to first in points, and basically just rode things out until 2050 and won a time victory. Lots of funny notes in the game, including Isabella, who DoW'd me: I had a stupid break in the front and let KK get some marauding cavalry dangerously near an undefended city (I was extremely depleted in my push against the Mongols), and left Old Sarai undefended in my haste to block Kublai's marauders. Isabella happened to have some conquistadors near Old Sarai and it took a few strokes of luck and good prior planning to keep that city out of her hands. Then later on I started peppering her units near Salamanca, and sinking her galleys, and eventually she agreed to peace.

This was all on noble level, my first victory of any kind on noble, so I'm happy with it. I would not have won without Kublai's land, but my word, his culture was extremely resistant to my attacks. He had one city in the south polar region, only size 4 or 5, only defended by one infantry late in the war, and after reducing his defenses to 0% with my destroyer, I lost a pair of infantry trying to take it. I came back with 3 infantry and 1 artillery, and when I finally walked into town it was with one nearly dead infantryman who left behind a bunch of fresh graves on the hillside. And up in his home territories, Samarqand was squeezed from pop 13 to pop 1 after my conquest because of his cultural pressure from New Sarai about six tiles away. Despite buying up all the cultural improvements that were possible, including a radio tower, by 2050 Samarqand was still pop 1. The Spanish culture on the east (Salamanca) and the Mongol culture on the west enveloped it like a suffocating cloak. I've never seen that before, and it basically was the same thing that happened with Karakorum and later with Old Sarai (which eventually connected into my culture envelope though). He must have had some Wonder in New Sarai but I never found out what it was.

Sorry about the long post. I'm hoping someone will share more stories from the maze. It's a crazy, crazy place. :crazyeye: I'm curious to whether it's equally crazy on BTS. My son's friend has Warlords and has said we could have it, so I'm hoping to install that today. I think I'm going to be Civ'ing all through the bleak midwinter.
 
Great story vhhawk, and excellent use of defensive pacts. I'll be sure to try out the maze in my next game. Have you tried it with anything other than 1-tile thickness? I'm thinking it could be even better with 2-tile thickness, as you'll need to use forts cleverly to transport your boats, and you just get more land for more production power. Because I'm neurotic about AIs building rubbish cities 1 tile from the coast, I think a 3-tile thickness maze would annoy me!

Currently playing a standard size, low seas fractal map with 4 more opponents than normal (so, 11 of us in total). I recommend this set up as the land shapes are completely unpredictable, but you can be sure of a roughly equal share between each player. Also the extra opponents help with the increased amount of land due to low seas.
 
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