The most important/influent female in history?

[lovett]

A monarch eating while their subjects starved? Colour me surprised!

 

[Bast]

Victoria didn't "rule" anywhere. She reigned. These are not the same things. You might as well say that Queen Elizabeth II is one of the most powerful people ever to live because she "rules" not only Britain but Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and wherever else. But of course she isn't, because she doesn't. All she does is travel about attending receptions. Queen Victoria didn't even do that - she just sat about on the Isle of Wight being miserable.

If you disagree, then give an example of something Victoria did that actually influenced what went on!

First of all, Queen Victoria was more influential than Queen Elizabeth II. Second of all, the British Empire actually existed as a single political entity and was far more influential than post-WWII United Kingdom.

You have to remember that when Victoria ascended to the throne, it had only been some 48 years since the French Revolution had passed. The British monarchy was also questioned at that time.

There was no way Queen Victoria could've come in and made sweeping changes - at least not overtly. It was through her ministers that she made a difference. Of course we will never know how influential and powerful she really was but she definitely held political power and cautioned and advised her ministers.

Obviously I can't just show evidence that she single-handedly made decisions because she didn't. But it doesn't mean that she was the biggest factor behind those decisions. She was the head of state after all.

Don't look at Elizabeth II and think that's what Victoria did. Victoria did a lot more.

 

[Plotinus]

Absolutely none of that is evidence! You're just guessing that Victoria did things even though you admit there's no reason to suppose that she did. That's not history, it's conspiracy theory. Why on earth should we suppose that characters as strong as Lord Palmerston, Gladstone (!), Disraeli, and Lord Salisbury were influenced by the queen? You say they "definitely" were, but what makes it so definite, and why are you so sure that Victoria had more of an influence than Elizabeth II does? Using your reasoning, why can't someone claim that Elizabeth is the real power behind Downing Street, and exerts her power by manipulating Gordon Brown? And if that's daft, why isn't it just as daft to say it of Victoria?

Also, you seem to overlook that the British monarchy was questioned far more during Victoria's reign than it was when she became queen. This was because Victoria did so little and was so unpopular during the couple of decades after the death of her husband. In fact, it's often said that during the 1870s Britain came closer to becoming a republic than it did at any other time in the past couple of centuries. That's why I say there's a good case for saying that Victoria was less important and influential a person than Elizabeth II. Elizabeth II may not do much of any importance, but she does do something, just about. Victoria didn't do anything at all for much of her reign.

 

[Yeekim]

Oh yeah Victoria's great, she was one of those enlightened people who made the Great Famine even greater in Ireland, and enjoyed a lovely banquet in India, while the Indian peseants starved to death. She may have been influential, but she was a terrible woman. It's a pity our Jubilee Plot failed (we still got the 'terrorist' invented, though).

If you have ever attended to a party, you are just as "terrible". Because I warrant that somebody was starving somewhere at the very same time.

I feel pretty indifferent about her, but if these are her greatest sins, she must have been a real saint among most heads of state

 

[RedRalph]

If you have ever attended to a party, you are just as "terrible". Because I warrant that somebody was starving somewhere at the very same time.

I feel pretty indifferent about her, but if these are her greatest sins, she must have been a real saint among most heads of state

I presume you feel the same about political commissars eatign away happily in Moscow in the 20s then?

 

[holy king]

I presume you feel the same about political commissars eatign away happily in Moscow in the 20s then?

wwoooa!! surprise attack from the left!!

 

[Bast]

Anne Boleyn didn't do anything that brought about the Church of England! All she did was have Henry VIII fall in lust with her. It was Henry who broke the church away from Rome, and he probably did that on the advice of people such as Thomas Cromwell.

Anne Boleyn was a crucial player in the English church breaking away from Rome. She had a lot of interest in the Protestant movement in Germany and was actually seen as a religious adviser of sorts towards Henry.

If you're not going to give these women the proper respect that they deserve - and it seems you're determined to be that way - then there's no use discussing this. Obviously, you think that they were of little to no importance in history anyway.

 

[RedRalph]

If you're not going to give these women the proper respect that they deserve - and it seems you're determined to be that way - then there's no use discussing this. Obviously, you think that they were of little to no importance in history anyway.

Yeah true to form, imply mysoginy... he named several women he did think were influential, just because he dosent agree with you dosent mean theres no point in discussing this with him

 

[silver 2039]

Cathrine the Great comes to mind of course. Maria Theresa maybe...Isabella the one who reconquered Grenada and comissioned Columbus of course.

A lesser known one would be:

Lakshmibai, The Rani of Jhansi (c. 1828 – 17 June 1858) (Hindi- झाँसी की रानी Marathi- झाशीची राण&#2368, the queen of the Maratha-ruled princely state of Jhansi in North India, was one of the leading figures of the Indian rebellion of 1857, and a symbol of resistance to British rule in India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_Lakshmibai

The British captured Gwalior three days later. In his report of the battle for Gwalior, General Rose commented that the Rani had been "the bravest and the best" of the rebels. Because of her unprecedented bravery, courage and wisdom and her progressive views on women's empowerment in 19th century India, and due to her sacrifices, she became an icon of Indian nationalist movement.

Rani Lakshmibai became a national heroine and was seen as the epitome of female bravery in India. When the Indian National Army created its first female unit, it was named after her.

Indian poetess Subhadra Kumari Chauhan wrote a poem in the Veer Ras style on her, which is still recited by children in schools in contemporary India.

 

[Plotinus]

If you're not going to give these women the proper respect that they deserve - and it seems you're determined to be that way - then there's no use discussing this. Obviously, you think that they were of little to no importance in history anyway.

It's nothing to do with "respect"! It's about weighing the evidence. Now you've given reasons to think that Anne Boleyn was influential, and that's fair enough. I'm prepared to be corrected on that. But in the case of Queen Victoria you haven't given any evidence at all, merely called for blind faith. Show that she deserves to be regarded as influential and I'll do it; don't just insist upon it for no apparent reason. I'm not stubbornly refusing to give Victoria "respect" because of her gender, as you imply. On the contrary, I'm affording her precisely the same "respect" that I'm inclined to extent to all British monarchs from the Hanoverians onwards. You're the one who seems "determined" to treat her differently without giving any good reasons for it. It's right that we should re-evaluate the role of historical figures and especially of women, where they have been unjustly neglected by historians, but that doesn't mean just making stuff up.

 

[civ_king]

(Disclaimer I am an Atheist, i believe in Quantum Physics)
How can Virgin Mary be mother of God? doesn't the bible say God created the universe?
at that point the Virgin Mary was not alive and God is a infinite being so how then can an infinite being precede a finite one and still be the son?
(I believe, note I believe that Jesus MAY have done those things through Quantum Physics)

 

[Plotinus]

According to Catholic theology, God doesn't "precede" anything or anyone because he is outside time, that is, completely atemporal. You can't apply temporal language to him. Moreover, God is three persons, although they are one substance. Mary is the mother of only one of them, namely the Son. The Son is fully divine, which is why it is accurate to say that Mary is the mother of God, because she is the mother of someone who is God. However, she is not the mother of the Godhead, that is, of all three members of the Trinity. Finally, the fact that Mary is the mother of the Son does not mean that the Son came into existence only when Mary gave birth to him. Rather, he pre-existed - although this is an inaccurate way of putting it, because he is timeless - it would be better to say that his existence is not dependent upon Mary's giving birth to him.

 

[Séamas]

As the creed goes "He was made incarnate by the virgin Mary"

His existance ON Earth was dependant on her.

 

[Plotinus]

Right, although that's "by" in the sense of "through".

 

[Séamas]

It may actually be "through", now that I think of it.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

I really don't knwo 'bout this one. I'd say...uh........??? I really don't know!

 

[citedon]

Did you ever think about what special people Mary and Joseph had to have been for God to say, "OK, you are the two people I pick to raise my son."

 

[Kranden]

The Land'O"lakes butter girl!!!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770238/make_the_land_o_lakes_butter_indian_show_you_her_boobies/ have you seen that omg!

 

[holy king]

Did you ever think about what special people Mary and Joseph had to have been for God to say, "OK, you are the two people I pick to raise my son."

yeah, but this is the history forum.

 

[Quildavyr]

Your Mom is not a virgin !

I dont think Jesus mom was one.She cant be virgin physically,maybe mentally.Warpus mom can still be more influental than Mary.


The most important female can be Marilyn Monroe.