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The most powerful military in the game.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Securion, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Securion

    Securion Civ Veteran

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    :twitch:
    ... are you serious...?

    I think most people would agree that England is easily the worst performing civ in the game when in the hands of the AI.
     
  2. pollock

    pollock Warlord

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    The huns with horse archers and battering rams can blitz amazing early.
    I have to second englands longbows as you essentially siege cities from out of their range early. Longbows also negate the human vs ai warring advantage because they can fire from "bad" positioning.
    Rome are solid with both UUs at the same time altho needing iron is definitely a big hindrance.
    I got give one last shout out to koreas UU the Hwacha rocket artillery . That can be epic :) .
     
  3. SirWinston

    SirWinston Chieftain

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    Best civ for fighting ...

    my top 3 in no order:
    Ottomans: Self-Healing Janissaries, very cheap fleet + free pillage sipahis
    China: Cho-Ko-Nu's (2 attacks / more exp) + better GG + gold producing libraries
    Zulu: Less exp to level+ great promotions until gunpowder+ awesome medieval unit that doesn't need resources
     
  4. PrimoXanthous

    PrimoXanthous ~ knightmare13 ~

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    :agree::agree::agree:
    An empire who once own 1/4 of the know world Deserves a little "Competitive" update this coming Fall patch.
     
  5. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    England shows the main flaws in the AI which is bad with water and ranged combat
     
  6. Dentalfury

    Dentalfury Warlord

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    Nice, but situational. The best Naval Civ I think would be it's own discussion with Ottomans/England/Carthage in their own race.

    I have to say that the best overall Military Civ in game is a tie between the Zulus/Mongols. Who really wins between them is a question of terrain and placement.

    In open plains/grasslands Mongols have the obvious edge insofar as they don't run out of horses. However they need to finish the game before before the industrial age or at least becoming a clear runaway by then when their Khesiks become irrelevant.

    In mixed terrain with access to decent funds and luxuries Shaka can be unstoppable. I've only used him once in a purposefully domination themed Pangaea game the only thing stopping my expansion was my gpt early game and happiness late game. If you can maintain a strong core of upgraded Impi throughout the game I don't know how you could lose unless your playing on higher difficulty settings.
     
  7. robincox

    robincox Warlord

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    Without a doubt the english longbowman, the extended range promotion is extremely good throught the game because updated units inherit the promotion too. Think about the mighty defencelines.
     
  8. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    Agreed. From a UU perspective I'd take Keshiks over Camel Archers for all the reasons you mentioned. In terms of overall Civ, Arabias UA puts it over the top. Extra lux translates to money or happy, and double Oil is a big deal in later eras.

    Agree with others who say England in AI hands is pretty weak, but I love playing as them. For random games, you can't go wrong with England. Water or land, you've got a unit that you can run the table with. I think a strong case can be made that for random rolls, they're the best.

    No more nerfs please :) Game is at risk of turning into samey samey with all the nerfing. I love having a potentially OP AI on the map or in my hands.
     
  9. therottweiler

    therottweiler Chieftain

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    The Chinese are pretty strong. Gold producing libraries are huge... Everyone builds libraries and these are not only free.. they give you gold! ChoKuNu double fire and the promotion carries and improved great generals. What is not to love?
     
  10. Johnpecan

    Johnpecan Warlord

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    Best overall: China.
    1. Choks are amazing in the era. Start with one of the strongest promotions in the game.
    2. Synergy between UA and UU.
    3. Upgrade path of Choks is useful after they become obsolete.
    4. Archery units line are by far the strongest land unit line in the game for a number of reasons:
      1. The mechanics of the ranged attack are imbalanced compared to melee attack.
      2. Upgrade path of archery units is useful and strong in every era (falls off some very late game).
      3. More mobility compared to siege units.

    • Shaka's strength is unmatched in the field, but his ability to capture cities is weak.
    • Mongol's Keshiks are the strongest unit in any era, but they fall off huge later and upgrade promotions aren't useful.
    • Ottomans increased navy fleet size isn't a big deal in higher difficulties because hammers are going to be your limiting factor, not maintenance.
    • England would be 2nd best pick, mainly because of the most of the reason that choks are amazing. They lack the synergy of the UA but make up for it with a super frigate. But ranged naval units are as broken and OP as archery units so the difference between the super frigate and a normal frigate isn't that huge. In other words, frigates are OP enough to begin with.
     
  11. therottweiler

    therottweiler Chieftain

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    Thank you. Well said. The ChuKuNu are freaking amazing and now we have a late game ranged unit in the Bazooka. Love the Chinese.
     
  12. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    Siberian Riches is the best UA for military Conquest. I can't tell you how many games I've rolled with Rome or England and I've got little to no iron. I wouldn't consider Russia the best military civ but I they at least need to be in the conversation.

    As does Songhai, they are going to be monsters with the new patch where they can buy LKs. I play a game with them in the beta and it wouldn't matter if I lost 3 or 4 LKs taking a city because I'll have so much plunder I can simply replenish the ranks and have gold left over
     
  13. katfish

    katfish Warlord

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    Here is my typical England
    Emperor Epic Polished Sandbox.
    England fighting 1st Place Rome, DoWs Zulu(!) and planning sneak attack on me!

    Dutch was surrounded by Alexander, Zulu, Napoleon and Harald. And lived to tell a tale about!
    sleazylizzy.jpg
     
  14. rodrigoq

    rodrigoq Warlord

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    You can win militarily with any civ easily, regardless of UU. It's not the uniques that make a civ do well, it's the player. Put a veteran diety player with the worst civ possible vs any emp/imm player with the most OP military civ, and the diety player will most likely win, and will probably do it before the other player knows wtf hit them.
     
  15. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    This argument is inconsistent; can the veteran deity player win with all civs? Also playing against a Human compared with playing against AI require very different strategies. A player good at MP will mostly consistently beat a player who has little experience with MP strategies.

    I could suggest that a superior starting position will beat any UU just as easily, this discussion should be based on all other factors being equal, which most posters here probably assume is the case.
     
  16. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    Shaka's strength is unmatched in the field, but his ability to capture cities is weak.
    What the zulu's cannot build any ranged/siege units? No they are no weaker than any other civ but they can more easily isolate enemy cities based on being 'unmatched in the field'
    Mongol's Keshiks are the strongest unit in any era, but they fall off huge later and upgrade promotions aren't useful.
    Allow promotion saving then. The Keshik is good up to Bombers/GWI in my experience although you have to focus-fire at this point to kill anything. It has a much longer period of being useful than CB in my experience, Artillery kills CB units very quickly.
    Ottomans increased navy fleet size isn't a big deal in higher difficulties because hammers are going to be your limiting factor, not maintenance.
    They can also capture ships more easily which saves hammers - bad argument
    England would be 2nd best pick, mainly because of the most of the reason that choks are amazing. They lack the synergy of the UA but make up for it with a super frigate. But ranged naval units are as broken and OP as archery units so the difference between the super frigate and a normal frigate isn't that huge. In other words, frigates are OP enough to begin with.
    CB units have less mobility than mounted units so shouldn't the Mongols or Arabia be above England?
     
  17. katfish

    katfish Warlord

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    They don't get terrain defense bonuses.
     
  18. LordG

    LordG Chieftain

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    I'm going to be controversial. After my recent game as Portugal, I'd say either Portugal or Venice is the most powerful (I've yet to try full domination as Venice, but still...). For 2 reasons;

    1 You have far more money than everyone else, ergo bigger army support.
    2 Amphibious invasions are damn near unstoppable, as most civs are a sizeable army as well as a navy, as Venice and Portugal you have the luxury of only needing to invest in a handful of ground forces, whilst your extremely fast and manoeuvrable naval bombardment ships (and later aircraft carriers) can attack and defend with ease.

    On the other hand, if you want to seize a capital that is deep inland, the requires far more effort, but is still very doable (especially with landsknechts) as you should have to gold reserves to buy entire armies if you need them.
     
  19. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    They will be out of range of a slower unit because they move after combat so not getting a terrain defense bonus is irrelevant.
     
  20. katfish

    katfish Warlord

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    I'm sure were talking about england?
     

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