The New World Unit Pack

[Mithadan]

Bwaaag! Now I have to radically rework my Incan unit line!!

It's a labour of love, of course. Great work, Dom!

 

[Master Kodama]

Holy llama crap! Those Incan units look fantastoriphical!! I'm definitely using 'em.


[wretched urchin voice] Please, sir, can I have some more? ( )

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Holy llama crap! Those Incan units look fantastoriphical!! I'm definitely using 'em.


[wretched urchin voice] Please, sir, can I have some more? ( )

Well, if by more you mean more Inca units, the answer is probably "Not for a while". With these four units combined with Kinboat's Inti Warrior and Inca Slinger, and utahjazz's Inti Warrior (btw, I use utah's as the Inti Warrior swordsman-replacement and Kinboat's as the Inti Footman med. infantry replacement), the Inca infantry line is complete all the way up to Rifleman.

I'm still debating on whether or not to make a Rifleman replacement... if I do, it'll probably be one based on the Quechua natives still living in Peru and Ecuador...

These are examples of what I might make. So it'll be more of a peasant-based army... which is what most of the riflemen represent anyway... the transformation from aristocratic warfare to nationalistic (hence the reason it comes with Nationalism) industrialized warfare. Classic examples of this are the U.S. Civil War where you had huge armies made up of working class and middle class citizens, and the Meiji Era where the peasants came to replace the samurai as the main body of the Imperial Army... eventhough some samurai sometimes retained positions as officers.

Of course, none of this covers Inca ships... but then again, I'm not the boat man


Nor does it cover cavalry, and I haven't even the slightest idea of what to make one (let alone three) Inca cavalry unit look like...

 

[Kal-el]

nice job on those Inca units.

 

[Master Kodama]

Well, if by more you mean more Inca units, the answer is probably "Not for a while".

Actually, I just meant "more" in general terms. There are a lot of units you're working on that I'm looking forward to, such as the Janissary (hint hint ), along with the Camel Lancer, revamped older camel units, etc.

 

[aaglo]

Darn, when did you do those funky pioneers? I haven't seen them at all
What a surprise

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Darn, when did you do those funky pioneers? I haven't seen them at all
What a surprise

Yeah, the price paid for updating old threads rather than starting new ones for new units.

 

[Aluminium]

Incas with firearms. Pizarro beware!

 

[Dom Pedro II]

As if Aluminium is surprised by these...

And yes... if only the Inca had had guns... actually, they'd have been a lot better off with some kind of disease than guns. The Spanish guns didn't make that much of a difference... I mean, if it takes you a minute to reload, somebody has already run up to you and killed you before you fire the second shot.


I made this Inca unit with what is actually based on a variant of the Chinese firelance because basically I got tired of the same basic design for early guns. I think that if gunpowder had developed independently in different parts of the world, you'd see different shapes and sizes... in the long term, however, I think guns would start to look more and more similar as different cultures realized what would make them more accurate, easier to load, and faster to shoot.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think the Incans and Azteks could have defeated the Conquistidors easily if Atahuapa and Montezuma made different decisions. What do you think DPII, if the civilizations of the New World had been able to exist without European interference or contact, what do you think would have happened?

I think the Haida would have developed into a powerful sea-faring nation like Carthage, the Iroquois would have continued their expansion, the Pueblo would continue to live as they had, the Azteks would eventually conquer the Mayan city-states, and eventually possibly encounter the Incans....(Wars would likely result as the two empires clashed)

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I think the Incans and Azteks could have defeated the Conquistidors easily if Atahuapa and Montezuma made different decisions. What do you think DPII, if the civilizations of the New World had been able to exist without European interference or contact, what do you think would have happened?

I think the Haida would have developed into a powerful sea-faring nation like Carthage, the Iroquois would have continued their expansion, the Pueblo would continue to live as they had, the Azteks would eventually conquer the Mayan city-states, and eventually possibly encounter the Incans....(Wars would likely result as the two empires clashed)

If we are talking about Americas without European contact then I think it would've taken many many centuries to see some real development. The main problem is that the Americans lacked any large domesticable animals except for the llama, which was still even too small to be ridden... could the Inca have bred the llamas to be like their Old World cousins, the camels? Maybe... but there's no realize to believe they would have.

Similarly, the Aztecs could've done a hell of a lot if they did three things: 1. Discovered iron working, 2. Rule their empire by territorial governance rather than hegemonic rule, 3. Endeavored to create sea power. Now, it's hard to believe that centuries and millenia could go by without any of these new developments, but we can't even begin to speculate about how that would come about... The Aztecs had a merchant class that were legally, socially, and politically isolated from the rest of society. They had an entire free hand and were often the spearhead of further expansion. Would THEY have perhaps considered trying to build ships to find what they could? Perhaps.

If we look at a map of Aztec expansion, there was tremendous expansion under the last Motecuhzoma (Montezuma)... The Aztecs effectually controlled both coasts of the Americas. If that rate of expansion continued, the Aztecs would be looking at collapse by shear contrifugal force within a matter of decades. Their armies were just too poorly supplied and too slow (because of the lack of draft animals and wheeled-vehicles) to actually hold control over their tributary states... but remember, like I said, they "controlled" these areas. If they placed territorial governors in charge of these areas and maintained Aztec garrisons like the Romans, they would've been able to continue expanding. And if they'd started to find their empire too unweildy, they would've made the appropriate changes or else fallen victim to one of their opponents who would have.

Either way... out of conflict comes change. Iron working was all but inevitable. They knew about working bronze... it'd only be a matter of time before they started experimenting with iron. The Aztecs had a special class of artisans who were constantly trying new things... and they carried so much weight, that one artisan wanted a specific kind of sand found only in an area beyond Aztec control... so the Aztec empire invaded that land and conquered it.

Now, if we suppose that the Spanish had been defeated in Mexico (and thereby discouraging attack into Inca territory), the Aztecs would've been ravaged by smallpox, but they would've also developed immunities with time. They also could've gained weapons and supplies against the Spanish from the English. They also would've realized and amended the weaknesses in the way they governed their empire, and they would have gained horses, which once they spread north would have eventually led to a Sioux Empire akin to the Mongols.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks for the new units - they're all fantastic !

 

[Rhye]

I love you DomPedro!!!

Those incan units are a nice surprise!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

If we are talking about Americas without European contact then I think it would've taken many many centuries to see some real development. The main problem is that the Americans lacked any large domesticable animals except for the llama, which was still even too small to be ridden... could the Inca have bred the llamas to be like their Old World cousins, the camels? Maybe... but there's no realize to believe they would have.

Similarly, the Aztecs could've done a hell of a lot if they did three things: 1. Discovered iron working, 2. Rule their empire by territorial governance rather than hegemonic rule, 3. Endeavored to create sea power. Now, it's hard to believe that centuries and millenia could go by without any of these new developments, but we can't even begin to speculate about how that would come about... The Aztecs had a merchant class that were legally, socially, and politically isolated from the rest of society. They had an entire free hand and were often the spearhead of further expansion. Would THEY have perhaps considered trying to build ships to find what they could? Perhaps.

If we look at a map of Aztec expansion, there was tremendous expansion under the last Motecuhzoma (Montezuma)... The Aztecs effectually controlled both coasts of the Americas. If that rate of expansion continued, the Aztecs would be looking at collapse by shear contrifugal force within a matter of decades. Their armies were just too poorly supplied and too slow (because of the lack of draft animals and wheeled-vehicles) to actually hold control over their tributary states... but remember, like I said, they "controlled" these areas. If they placed territorial governors in charge of these areas and maintained Aztec garrisons like the Romans, they would've been able to continue expanding. And if they'd started to find their empire too unweildy, they would've made the appropriate changes or else fallen victim to one of their opponents who would have.

Either way... out of conflict comes change. Iron working was all but inevitable. They knew about working bronze... it'd only be a matter of time before they started experimenting with iron. The Aztecs had a special class of artisans who were constantly trying new things... and they carried so much weight, that one artisan wanted a specific kind of sand found only in an area beyond Aztec control... so the Aztec empire invaded that land and conquered it.

Now, if we suppose that the Spanish had been defeated in Mexico (and thereby discouraging attack into Inca territory), the Aztecs would've been ravaged by smallpox, but they would've also developed immunities with time. They also could've gained weapons and supplies against the Spanish from the English. They also would've realized and amended the weaknesses in the way they governed their empire, and they would have gained horses, which once they spread north would have eventually led to a Sioux Empire akin to the Mongols.

Indeed! I'd imagine several powers would develop in North America after time. But it would take awile. The most advanced peoples in North America at the time were the Haida and the Pueblo, but the Iroquois were quite advanced socially in many ways. As for South America, the Azteks were theorized to be on the decline when the Conquistidors arrived, while the Incans were on the rise.

 

[TopGun]

Wow DP... those Incas were worth waiting for! Now I know you really didn't abandon your "unit packs"...

 

[Bungus]

Lookin' good. Muchas gracias, Senor Pedro. Nice size in game (thanks Al) Since you've been revisting the American Continent, any chance you'll be making a mounted rifleman for the North American tribes or arquibusier (there's a couple musket and rifle type foot injun's out there, but no early firearm totin ones. And a total lack of injun's on horses. And a TOTAL lack of injun's in tanks(We cannot let this continue).

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Indeed! I'd imagine several powers would develop in North America after time. But it would take awile. The most advanced peoples in North America at the time were the Haida and the Pueblo, but the Iroquois were quite advanced socially in many ways. As for South America, the Azteks were theorized to be on the decline when the Conquistidors arrived, while the Incans were on the rise.

Well, if you take a look at the map of Aztec territorial expansions, you'd hardly think so. The last Montezuma nearly doubled the size of their territory... but yes, they did have some serious infrastructural problems that needed to be addressed. As I said, either they would've dealt with those problems or they would've been conquered by a more enterprising neighboring people... either way, whoever was in power, the society would look very similar, and I would imagine that much of the Aztec institutions such as their elaborate legal system and complex trade network would've remained in place even if under new administration... in fact, such an overthrow could've led to a dramatic change in society spurring further technological innovation.

Lookin' good. Muchas gracias, Senor Pedro. Nice size in game (thanks Al) Since you've been revisting the American Continent, any chance you'll be making a mounted rifleman for the North American tribes or arquibusier (there's a couple musket and rifle type foot injun's out there, but no early firearm totin ones. And a total lack of injun's on horses. And a TOTAL lack of injun's in tanks(We cannot let this continue).

Well, up until now, I've been using utahjazz's original Indian Rifleman as a Musketman replacement and his more recent native rifleman as a Rifleman replacement... but I always wanted to see a native holding one of those blunderbuss with the big bell-shaped muzzles like the Pilgrams are always shown with. I think the French Musketeer unit has what I'm talking about...
I realize now that I actually have the power to make such a device whereas before I had to rely on others.

As for injun's on horses, there's a whole lot of cavalry units from around the planet that have to be made... definitely.

As for Native American tanks, barring absurdly placed totem poles and such, I have no idea what would make one of these different from regular tanks.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Golden Incan Tanks with Llamas on top! Lol

Aztek Tanks built to look like one of the Pyramid Temples! lol

Haida Tanks with line art and Totem Pole Cannons! Lol

Nope....I think it makes sense for all the cultures to converge during the Industrial Age

Also DP, I thought that there was a serious gap between the Musketman and Rifleman, so I added a new unit, the Grenadier in between the two. I also have the Archer and Warrior lines upgrade to the Grenadier(Kal-El did a similiar thing btw)

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Haida Tanks with line art and Totem Pole Cannons! Lol

Somebody's been reading Shaman King appearantly.....

Anyways, DP, it's kind of interesting about your alternate history scenario, since I actually was working on (and have a half-finished version of) a campaign for Age of Empires II, Conqerors expansion that involved a rather bizarre, but entirely possible twist on history.

In this campaign, one of the Christian Daimyos, with the help of the Portugese, manages to take out Nubunaga, Hideyoshi and Tkugawa and becomes Shogun of Japan. Once this happens, the Portugese and Spanish attempt to pull the same trick they did with the Inca, and backstab their former allies. Of course, since Japan was on par technologically, not to mention had more people in Edo and Osaka alone than were in the entirety of Portugal and Spain, they beat the Portugese and Spanish bloody (one of the objectives in one of the missions was to rescue William Adams (a.k.a. Anjin Miura), an English captain of a Dutch privateer so he could bring the Dutch fleet from Indonesia to help destroy the Spanish Galleons). Once the Spanish and Portugese were taken care of, This Shogun (the player) names Miura Anjin (William Adams) as his admiral, and charges him with sending a fleet of colony ships to the New World to take over Spanish posessions.

The fleet lands near the ruins of the northern part of the Mayan city of Tehautepac, and encounters the survivors of a recent smallpox outbreak in the southern half. If you gave them 6 villagers, 200 food and 2 priests (to help heal the remaining townfolk), they would begin producing units and help you in driving the Spanish from a nearby colony and an occupied Mayan city (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) to the north.

Basically the rest of the campaing involved a treaty made between the Mayans and Japanese that granted everything south of the Tehuantepac River to the Mayans and the territory to the North to the Japanese. The treaty also laid out terms of a military alliance between the Japanese and Mayans against the Spanish. The Japanese then proceded North, conquering and pillaging Spanish settlements they came accross, but native tribes were given a choice: pledge allegiance to the Shogun and the Emperor and the tribal leader would be given the title of Daimyo over their village and farmland, and all the villagers would be citizens of Japan, or refuse and be attacked and wiped out to the last man. Most, of course, chose the former option. The Mayans eventually drove out all Spanish and consolidated their entire territory from the Tehauntepac River to the Northern part of Colombia, and the Japanese Drove the Spaniards into the Sonora Desert, and decided to let them keep that barren land, since they couldn't grow rice there anyways. Some of the things to note about that campaign is that when the Japanese took Mexico City (which they renamed Tennokuchiran, the closest they could approximate the original name in Japanese), freed the Aztec slaves, and restored the Aztec temples (but outlawed human sacrifice), repaired the Spanish Churches that were damaged during the battle, as well as built some Shinto Shrines and Buddhist temples (the Shogun had instituted a religious freedom reform, in order to appease and earn the trust of the Shinto-Buddhist daimyos).

Thanks to these units (and your asian ones) I may actually get around to making that campaign for Civ III.

 

[Mithadan]

I may actually get around to making that campaign for Civ III.

Wow, please do!