The New World Unit Pack

[Master Kodama]

@Hikaro Takayama
I second Mithadan. This is an intriguing idea for a scenario, albeit, in my own estimation, a little bit far-fetched -- but not too far-fetched. I too am working on an alternate history scenario, as such things have always fascinated me.


My scenario does involve an alternate development of states in the New World (and some major changes in Europe), so these units are welcome. At this point, I'm not planning to include the Haida as a major power though -- I'm sure this will disappoint many CFCers considering the Haida's popularity here, but it's just the way things worked out.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

My scenario does involve an alternate development of states in the New World (and some major changes in Europe), so these units are welcome. At this point, I'm not planning to include the Haida as a major power though -- I'm sure this will disappoint many CFCers considering the Haida's popularity here, but it's just the way things worked out.

I'm really not terribly impressed with these claims of the Haida being some great power of the Americas... they only had about 8,000 people...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

So did the Greeks at one point....

 

[Louis XXIV]

The Iroquois had the closest thing to a Native American Empire after the Europeans came over. There were a bunch of tribes who were under their rule. But their population itself was terribly small and shrinking, so they began the process of adoption to repopulate their tribes.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

So did the Greeks at one point....

And so did a lot of people who ultimately became footnotes in history... I just don't see what makes the Haida so special.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The were the first Native American tribe to reach the Bronze Age, and they were the only tribe to make use of armor. Plus they were the only ones to use sails. Plus their society was evolving into a true civilization, as a merchent class was already well in development.

If you look at World Population growth, in reality for along time in the past their was only 2 million people worldwide for along time.

Plus, the Haida fought the Russians on many occasions and defeated them on many occasions...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

The were the first Native American tribe to reach the Bronze Age, and they were the only tribe to make use of armor. Plus they were the only ones to use sails. Plus their society was evolving into a true civilization, as a merchent class was already well in development.

If you look at World Population growth, in reality for along time in the past their was only 2 million people worldwide for along time.

Plus, the Haida fought the Russians on many occasions and defeated them on many occasions...

First of all, they were not the only tribe to make use of armor... metal armor maybe...

And was their use of sails was AFTER the Europeans had already arrived. They didn't come up with it themselves.

And merchant classes already existed in both Aztec and Inca society as well.

As for fighting the Russians, the Russians never put up much of a fight for Alaska anyway... it was not a critical part of their empire, and it was settlers against the natives. Not really a noteworthy accomplishment since many other tribes had similar successes against settlers.

I think if the impetus for change and evolution was going to come from anywhere, it was going to be from Central and South America. The very fact that even with access to all of the modern technologies of the Europeans, the Natives still opted to remain weak and primitive suggests that they would especially not have made the necessary changes without some source of inspiration.

 

[Master Kodama]

The were the first Native American tribe to reach the Bronze Age, and they were the only tribe to make use of armor. Plus they were the only ones to use sails. Plus their society was evolving into a true civilization, as a merchent class was already well in development.

By "Native American" I'm going to have to assume you mean North American, but even so your claims seem a bit too general. The Inca used bronze (though I've heard it said they didn't have a "true Bronze Age," whatever that's supposed to mean), and many Amerindian groups used armor, including but not limited to the Inuit (whale-bone) the Aztecs (treated cotton, which was very effective, moreso than metal armor in their climate/terrain; it was the sort of thing that common soldiers often wore during the Renaissance in Europe because metal armor was too expensive). And bronze platemail was definitely used in S. America.

As for being a "civilization," the Aztecs had a merchant class, and the Classical Maya even had a middle-class hundreds of years before something comparable evolved in Europe. Of course, they lost that in the Post-Classic Period, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.



In my scenario, the history will likely run something like this: the Haida have been crushed to the status of a barbarian tribe by more populous empires/nations after trying to sieze control of a larger portion of the N. American continent. Their engineers have been snapped up by rival groups in the New World, much like the German rocket scientists after WWII.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

In my scenario, the history will likely run something like this: the Haida have been crushed to the status of a barbarian tribe by more populous empires/nations after trying to sieze control of a larger portion of the N. American continent. Their engineers have been snapped up by rival groups in the New World, much like the German rocket scientists after WWII.

I'd like to say that it is not impossible that the Haida could've established new settlements or conquered new regions much like the Vikings did... and thus have some impact on how the surrounding cultures developed. There have been times when smaller, less-population countries have conquered vast areas... I would imagine that some kind of hybrid culture might emerge with the Haida ultimately depending far more on their territorial holdings.. and the fact that the attempts by the Haida to colonize new areas ultimately ended up in new tribes rather than an expansion of Haida authority suggests it'd be tough for them to maintain any large holdings in their present state.

Impossible? No. But I'd hardly say they were on a collision course for greatness as some here would argue.

 

[Master Kodama]

@DPII

Agreed. Thus I have them playing a role in the history but not emerging as a major power. Which also gives me an excuse for Mesoamerican and Midwestern groups to go sailing around in distinctly Northwestern-styled vessels

And I'd just like to thank you again for these wonderous Andean units