The next 4x Space game.

[Murky]

Murky: It sounds like you are saying SotS has more interesting tactical combat than MOO2. Is that right? (For the record, I'd agree that SotS has more interesting tactical combat than either MOO1 or MOO2.)

The only problem with SotS MP combats taking too long I've read about is people not hitting auto-resolve for scout battles and other small, inconsequential combats. This is especially a concern for hivers since they tend to have a small contingent in every system they've ever visited (for gate capacity.) But agreeing upon a certain etiquette for which/how many battles to resolve should fix that problem, assuming you're playing against people you know at least.

The RTS and FX make SoTS tactical combat more exciting but MOO2 has a greater strategy element to tactical combat. Twitch players will lose to an experienced MOO2 player who knows how to optimize every move.

Too many battles for X-ways was my point. I think I read same comments like Zed-F. This is of course no problem in a 1v1 match....well I am European....still without SOTS....mebbe I know more in a few days....

True. MOO2 games are often decided by only a few major ship battles. This is because of the time it takes to build a large fleet in MOO2. Even with a production race, if you lose the majority of your fleet and the opponent still has theirs, there is no way you can rebuild before your planets are invaded. Since planetary defenses aren't usually a high prority, invading planets is a lot easier in MOO2 than SoTS.

There is an optional auto-resolve that should save some time in SoTS MP. The only problem with that is that auto-resolve has random outcomes and it usually favors numbers over tech.

 

[Zed-F]

'Twitch'? I'd hardly call anything in SotS twitchy. Even destroyers have a pretty deliberate pace for the most part.

 

[Murky]

'Twitch'? I'd hardly call anything in SotS twitchy. Even destroyers have a pretty deliberate pace for the most part.

By "Twitch" I mean a player with faster reaction time for mouse clicks. SoTS isn't as twichy as StarCraft but since it's RTS there's not a lot of time to think through your moves before you make them. I suppose you could use the pause button a lot but that would probably annoy a lot of online players. There is also a time compression feature which I expect some online players will use to reduce the time it takes to play a game making it even more reaction oriented.

 

[Zed-F]

Time compression is single-player only. Doesn't exist in multiplayer. You don't really need fast reaction time in SotS battles, there's plenty of time to give your fleet orders. Sending the right amount of forces, composed of the right vessels, in the right formation, is vastly more important than reaction time in SotS tactical battles.

 

[Murky]

Time compression is single-player only. Doesn't exist in multiplayer. You don't really need fast reaction time in SotS battles, there's plenty of time to give your fleet orders. Sending the right amount of forces, composed of the right vessels, in the right formation, is vastly more important than reaction time in SotS tactical battles.

Ok. I was thinking time compression was put in so that you could reduce the time it takes for MP games but then that would be difficult to resolve in a network game. I'd say they are both interesting for tactical combat. MOO2 does have more options. You can board and capture enemy ships for example. It is a nice feature of SoTS in that you can manage fleet formations prior to battle. There are nice features to both games. If MOO2 were updated to today's game technology it would most likely eclipse SoTS in popularity.

 

[grinningman]

Ok. I was thinking time compression was put in so that you could reduce the time it takes for MP games but then that would be difficult to resolve in a network game. I'd say they are both interesting for tactical combat. MOO2 does have more options. You can board and capture enemy ships for example. It is a nice feature of SoTS in that you can manage fleet formations prior to battle. There are nice features to both games. If MOO2 were updated to today's game technology it would most likely eclipse SoTS in popularity.

I get the impression that you like Moo2 That's cool. I would just suggest that you approach SotS on its own merits, rather than comparing it to other games too much. It really is fun and interesting, IMO. I'd be happy to have SotS multiplayer game with anyone who's interested - but I probably won't be free until next week. If you have a xfire account my account name is grinningman.

 

[Murky]

I get the impression that you like Moo2 That's cool. I would just suggest that you approach SotS on its own merits, rather than comparing it to other games too much. It really is fun and interesting, IMO. I'd be happy to have SotS multiplayer game with anyone who's interested - but I probably won't be free until next week. If you have a xfire account my account name is grinningman.

MOO2 has its problems but it is currently my favorite 4x space game. If you don't compare one 4x space game to others then any of them could be considered good. I like SoTS for some of its features. I'd say it's more interesting than GalCiv2 but doesn't have enough features to beat MOO2.

My ideal 4x Space game would be an amalgamation of MOO1 & MOO2. It would incorporate all the best features of both games.

 

[Horizon]

Hello,

I like a lot playing both MoO1 and MoO2 even nowadays, and from reading here and there, while already looking forward buying GalCiv2 when my new system will be ready, i am potentially interested by this new SotS game too for the space 4X genre i enjoy.

I really appreciate the MoO1 and the MoO2 AI and enjoy a lot playing with them, they do their job greatly enough for me.
The features of SotS may be or not be as deep as other 4X games, but the AI is the primary argument for me when it comes to buy a game.

So Being a very lot more interested in single player content than in the multiplayer part, i wonder how enjoyable or awfull is the AI in SotS ?
Do people currently playing the full game (as i heard it was released) really find the battles with the AI being interesting ?
Do the AI have a believable diplomacy (SMAX comes in my mind) or are the AI diplomacy totally ridiculous (Civ3 comes in my mind) ?

Thanks for any answers

 

[Zed-F]

The diplomacy is very bare-bones in SotS. There are few options available and it doesn't seem to be a focus area of the game. In the demo, diplomacy doesn't really exist at all, as the AI will never hold fire in first contact scenarios and neither will your planets. In the full game, diplomacy is more possible, but still not very deep.

Some people who are not used to maximizing their expansion phase in 4X games find the AI challenging. So far, I've found that the only way the AI can put up a credible fight is if it gets the opportunity to try to crush you in the earliest parts of the game, before you are able to expand significantly. But this depends on how well you execute your expansion strategy and how well you deny the AI the opportunity to expand.

 

[Horizon]

Thank you for the informations.

Very unfortunate that the AI is not really good, i will see how this title evolve with its updates before considering to buy it, as i am not interested by 4X games with uninteresting AI.

 

[Murky]

Hello,

I like a lot playing both MoO1 and MoO2 even nowadays, and from reading here and there, while already looking forward buying GalCiv2 when my new system will be ready, i am potentially interested by this new SotS game too for the space 4X genre i enjoy.

I really appreciate the MoO1 and the MoO2 AI and enjoy a lot playing with them, they do their job greatly enough for me.
The features of SotS may be or not be as deep as other 4X games, but the AI is the primary argument for me when it comes to buy a game.

So Being a very lot more interested in single player content than in the multiplayer part, i wonder how enjoyable or awfull is the AI in SotS ?
Do people currently playing the full game (as i heard it was released) really find the battles with the AI being interesting ?
Do the AI have a believable diplomacy (SMAX comes in my mind) or are the AI diplomacy totally ridiculous (Civ3 comes in my mind) ?

Thanks for any answers

The AI programmer for MOO2 has said that they purposely wrote so that it wouldn't cheat like so many other AIs of the genre do. That's probably why the AI in MOO2 is relatively easy to beat even on impossible. Computers back in the time the AI was written just didn't have enough power to compete with the average player. Multiplayer is why MOO2 is so long lived.

If you find the MOO2 AI good then SoTS AI should also be challenging for you. You should probably check out the demo for it first. Some of my friends have said they didn't like the 3D starmap and some other aspects of the interface. I think the interface could be more efficient but it's workable.

I did end up purchasing Sword of the Stars in the hopes that supporting development of a future title will result in another game as good or better than MOO2.

 

[Zed-F]

Yes, as far as AI goes your best bet, if interested in solid AI, is to hope that an expansion pack or sequel will vamp up the AI. Purchasing the game, trying it out, and voicing your opinion on the AI will give some chance of seeing improvements in that regard.

 

[grinningman]

Diplomacy is definitely the bare minimum, with very little feedback on what AIs think of you. Note that you can always avoid fighting in a first contact situation in the full game (possibly not against Tarkas, but everyone else). However, the AIs only seem to agree to a non-aggression pact once they respect you, i.e. they've lost a significant battle or a few ships to you.

I think it is very likely that a further patch or expansion will see improvements to the AI. Whether it will be enough of an improvement for hardcore single player types like Zed-f remains to be seen. I hope it will be .

Murky, if you're interested in a multiplayer game I'd be happy to arrange one some time. My time is a bit limited (and I live in Australia at the moment, so a common time might be tricky), but I'm happy to try and work something out.

 

[Murky]

Diplomacy is definitely the bare minimum, with very little feedback on what AIs think of you. Note that you can always avoid fighting in a first contact situation in the full game (possibly not against Tarkas, but everyone else). However, the AIs only seem to agree to a non-aggression pact once they respect you, i.e. they've lost a significant battle or a few ships to you.

I think it is very likely that a further patch or expansion will see improvements to the AI. Whether it will be enough of an improvement for hardcore single player types like Zed-f remains to be seen. I hope it will be .

Murky, if you're interested in a multiplayer game I'd be happy to arrange one some time. My time is a bit limited (and I live in Australia at the moment, so a common time might be tricky), but I'm happy to try and work something out.

Most of my mp gaming time is already spoken for by other games. I am still trying to finish a single player SoTS game.