The only place to currently get my AC forum fix

Russia4Life

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
69
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Quite irritating that not only is Apolyton down(no real surprise there) but also WPC is down as well. Really makes me appreciate CFC's stability. I can not ever remember experiencing lag much less the site ever being down. If only there were more people here at the AC forum :(

Ah well back to looking over AC threads.
 
Don't forget that CFC went down a few times earlier this year. Still, it's pretty stable generally speaking.
 
I imagined hearing crickets in the background at that place. I have yet to read a post by Maniac that I have disagreed with. Maniac's view on things is quite similar to my own.
 
That vintage game club looks pretty good, I had a read through a couple of the threads at work and they've got some handy info and opinions for a beginner.
 
As a veteran, I was impressed with how quickly he used Morgan's advantage (lots of energy credits) to counter Zakharov's advantage (tech) by using a probe team to subvert an advance military unit and reverse engineer it. It is a good illustration of using your faction's strengths to counter another faction's strengths.
 
Which threads and which posts in the vintage game club did you find useful for a beginner?

Well I've only read threads 0-3 so far. In thread 2 post 4 I learnt that automated formers apparently don't do a terrible job, which was quite useful to know. Still, I'd like to be able to confidently manage my formers and know that I'm doing the right thing. For instance in the early game I check the tile information section of the HUD and see that say if I build a solar collector I gain 2 energy whereas a mine gains me 1 production - in this case I go for farm and solar and road, assuming I am allowed a farm. I also look at my cities and see which unimproved tiles they are working and improve these first. Interestingly though I played a few turns of a game at the weekend and I placed a city near to a mineral resource, but my automated formers completely ignored it! Surely they would think that improving that tile would be a very high priority?

Also, I struggle to determine for myself when it is best to go farm+solar, farm+mine, or forest. I am sure this comes with experience though. I am thinking about immediate benefit in the early game.

Also in that same post I learnt that you can spread out unit support costs by setting a unit's home city to somewhere else. I haven't yet done this though, it seems quite a chore for perhaps not a great deal of reward, after all, if I designate my higher production cities to be military cities, they can take the production hit whereas my economic cities cannot. Right?

Same thread post 6 made me appreciate the fight against the environment more, I never really considered that it is a significant part of the game just to survive in this alien environment. The same post also made me consider that building +50% economy buildings quite so frequently was probably a waste, in the early game at least (and so far I haven't ever gotten very far).

Also I've discovered a few things that are positive by myself. For instance I like the diplomacy much more than in Civ4. I bought the comm. freq. for Yang and for a while didn't bother speaking to him. When I finally decided to have a chat he was angry with me as I predicted and made a tech demand. I refused and he pronounced vendetta upon me. This would never happen in Civ4. The lesson: diplomatic visits are often not worth embarking upon!
 
I learnt that automated formers apparently don't do a terrible job, which was quite useful to know. Still, I'd like to be able to confidently manage my formers and know that I'm doing the right thing. ... Interestingly though I played a few turns of a game at the weekend and I placed a city near to a mineral resource, but my automated formers completely ignored it! Surely they would think that improving that tile would be a very high priority?

The AI is very dumb. Look at the automation tasks like "build road to..." or the combo tasks like "build farm, solar collector and road." Then you are saving yourself from having to give several separate commands (and sometimes you forget what you wanted later on). Warning: the automated formers can build roads through fungus before you have the ability to.

Also, I struggle to determine for myself when it is best to go farm+solar, farm+mine, or forest. I am sure this comes with experience though. I am thinking about immediate benefit in the early game.

It depends on what your base needs and what stage you are. Before resource restrictions are lifted, the best bets are improving bonus squares (because resource restriction doesn't apply to bonus) E.g. a mine and a road on a bonus mineral rocky square yields 7 minerals, which will turn the base into an early industrial power house.

Rivers are great because they add +1 energy to anything else.

Forests are great all around things because:

(1) they give you 1-2-1 (on a river 1-2-2, on a bonus square, 3-2-1, 1-4-1 or 1-2-3).
(2) they spread. Besides saving terraforming time, they will also take over fungus squares.
(3) they reduce ecodamage.
(4) they are boosted by the tree farm and hybrid forests facilities.

Generally, for a base to grow (especially if you are in an active expansion mode), you can only afford to have one square that is producing less than two nutrients. With nutrient restrictions, you can choose

(1) a rainy square (preferably rolling for 2-1-0)
(2) a moist square with a farm (if it is rolling, you get 2-1-0)
(3) a bonus nutrient square (if it is rolling, you get 2-1-0, 3-1-0, 4-1-0 and with farm, you can even have 5-1-0 -- rainy (2), bonus nutrient (2), farm (1))

Then you can add solar collectors to these nutrient producers. In the early game, nutrients and minerals are the most important. When you are producing as many minerals as you can without creating pollution, energy becomes more important.

Most experienced players consider farm+mine to be awful. Some experienced players doubt the wisdom of farm+solar collector. Everybody loves forests.

Also in that same post I learnt that you can spread out unit support costs by setting a unit's home city to somewhere else. I haven't yet done this though, it seems quite a chore for perhaps not a great deal of reward, after all, if I designate my higher production cities to be military cities, they can take the production hit whereas my economic cities cannot. Right?

You are overlooking the fact that each base gets a certain number of units that are support free. If you can support two free units per base (at +0 support) and one base has three units and the other base has only one unit, you can gain +1 mineral per turn by re-homing a unit from the first base at the second base.

Generally, I send a garrison unit with a new colony pod. When I establish a new base, I re-home the garrison unit at the new base. It is a slight chore but it becomes automatic.

Same thread post 6 made me appreciate the fight against the environment more, I never really considered that it is a significant part of the game just to survive in this alien environment.

This is especially true if you've chosen abundant native life in your setup. Darsan, one of the greatest modders ever, considers the native life to be the 8th faction. While it can be a challenge to survive, you can also exploit native life. If you attack a native life unit, you may capture it (if you have a planet rating > 0) and use it (it treats fungus like roads, it can heal fully in fungus, it attacks everything with psi combat, so it is a great equalizer against an advanced tech faction) and it has no support costs in fungus. And if you don't capture it, you can earn a lot of credits if you kill it. Plus your unit may gain morale.

One favorite tactic is to send obsolete units into the fungus to troll for mind worms. It is a win-win. Either you get energy credits or you get rid of a support drain. The lucky elite survivors are then upgraded and used against your enemies.

The same post also made me consider that building +50% economy buildings quite so frequently was probably a waste, in the early game at least (and so far I haven't ever gotten very far).

In the early game, I focus on more colony pods and more formers and the necessary units for garrisoning bases, exploring territory and attacking any neighbors. I will build recycling tanks (adds 1-1-1 and costs nothing) and recreation commons (suppresses two drones and costs one credit per turn upkeep) as needed.

Maniac, the second best modder ever, has made a persuasive argument that once you can build supply crawlers, that forest plus supply crawlers are more cost effective than building network nodes and energy banks.

Also I've discovered a few things that are positive by myself. For instance I like the diplomacy much more than in Civ4. I bought the comm. freq. for Yang and for a while didn't bother speaking to him. When I finally decided to have a chat he was angry with me as I predicted and made a tech demand. I refused and he pronounced vendetta upon me. This would never happen in Civ4. The lesson: diplomatic visits are often not worth embarking upon!

Diplomacy is much better developed. The ideology you've chosen is a great factor in which AI will work with you and which will fight you.

Keep reading those Vintage Club threads. And then post your questions here. Veterans like me, petek, Darsnan, and Maniac love helping people like you enjoy the game. (And there are a few newer people, like Russia4Life and Buster's Uncle that will share their opinions with you. And I've neglected to mention eclipse4449 and others.)
 
Keep reading those Vintage Club threads. And then post your questions here. Veterans like me, petek, Darsnan, and Maniac love helping people like you enjoy the game. (And there are a few newer people, like Russia4Life and Buster's Uncle that will share their opinions with you. And I've neglected to mention eclipse4449 and others.)

I appreciate the help. Indeed I very much enjoy helping people with Civ4 concepts and strategy, as I remember what it was like to be overwhelmed by the rules of the world Sid devised.

Look at the automation tasks like "build road to..." or the combo tasks like "build farm, solar collector and road."

Yes, I've started to do this. Slowly learning the shortcut keyboard commands too.

In the early game, nutrients and minerals are the most important.

...

Most experienced players consider farm+mine to be awful. Some experienced players doubt the wisdom of farm+solar collector. Everybody loves forests.

How can you reconcile the early game importance of nutrients and minerals with the poorness of farm+mine? If you're gathering resources using a mine and can farm the tile then why not? Are you suggesting that mines should only be built where you cannot farm, and so spaces that can be both farmed and mined should instead be forested or perhaps farm+solar?

You are overlooking the fact that each base gets a certain number of units that are support free.

...

It is a slight chore but it becomes automatic.

A fair point I had neglected to consider.

One favorite tactic is to send obsolete units into the fungus to troll for mind worms. It is a win-win.

Ha! I like that.

In the early game, I focus on more colony pods and more formers and the necessary units for garrisoning bases, exploring territory and attacking any neighbors. I will build recycling tanks (adds 1-1-1 and costs nothing) and recreation commons (suppresses two drones and costs one credit per turn upkeep) as needed.

Yes my first facility is always recycling tanks, unless I am coastal and have the capacity to build pressure domes (my reasoning being why build recycling tanks when I can spend a few more minerals on a building that does the same thing and a bit extra benefit that I may need later?). I also love formers, rush-buying colony pods and building garrisons and/or 2-2-1/2-2-2 to crush my neighbours. What about network nodes, are they not important early buildings? Creches?

Also I am confused as to what you mean by the energy cost of a building.
 
I appreciate the help. Indeed I very much enjoy helping people with Civ4 concepts and strategy, as I remember what it was like to be overwhelmed by the rules of the world Sid devised.

You're welcome. If I ever start playing Civ IV, I'll look you up.

How can you reconcile the early game importance of nutrients and minerals with the poorness of farm+mine? If you're gathering resources using a mine and can farm the tile then why not? Are you suggesting that mines should only be built where you cannot farm, and so spaces that can be both farmed and mined should instead be forested or perhaps farm+solar?

I guess you're not aware that a mine subtracts one nutrient from a square (but will not reduce one nutrient to zero). A farm mine costs 12 turns to make and will give you 1-2-0 (I'm not sure about a rainy rolling square). A forest costs 4 turns to make and will give you 1-2-1.

If you mine and road a rocky square, it produces 0-4-0.

So farmed moist rolling + mine road rocky gives 2-5-0. (and costs 15 former turns)

Two farm mine gives you 2-4-0 (and costs 24 former turns).

Yes my first facility is always recycling tanks, unless I am coastal and have the capacity to build pressure domes ... What about network nodes, are they not important early buildings? Creches?

If your base is only producing two labs, a network node would increase your labs by one but cost one energy credit per turn. You might achieve the same results by adjusting the energy slider.

Maniac's argument goes like this. If you have crawlers and forests, it only cost 3 rows (30 minerals under +0 industry) to build a crawler and 8 rows to build a network node. If you build 2 and 2/3 crawlers and set them to harvesting 2 minerals from the forests, then you get an additional 5 1/3 minerals per turn, which saves you 10 2/3 credits in hurrying cost per turn. If you are clever, those 10 2/3 credits can be converted to 10 2/3 labs. So you would need a base producing 23 labs per turn for a network node to be more cost effective.

Creches increase efficiency and increase growth. They have less of an impact when you are expanding rapidly and all of your bases are small.

Also I am confused as to what you mean by the energy cost of a building.

Facilities have a maintenance cost. A recycling tank costs nothing. Children's creche, energy banks, network nodes and recreation commons cost 1 credit per turn. Your treasury is charged this.
 
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