The OOS Issues that Plague This Game

[Calbrenar]

While you're playing multiplayer you get a red text that says Out of Synch error and at the bottom right you have red #'s next to the human players name. Typically 2 or more players will have the same value and one is different which theoretically allows that one player to rejoin--i've never had that work and it requires saving and then reloading from that save. Rarely (for me) that allows the game to continue, more often it means the game is done and we need to start a new one.

 

[Yaotzin]

excuse my ignorance here, but what is an OOS error?

As said, Out Of Sync. It's caused by the 2+ games in a multiplayer game having different states, which should never happen, like other things that happened in Civ IV's code

 

[leo.]

i think there could be another reason why you get oos so often, and i feel i must tell you, perhaps you dont know that...
after getting the latest patch from bts (that you need if you want access to gamespy mp lobby, 3.13 i think), did you all reinstall your game (bts)?

if not, it is most likely this is causing this problem! i've often experienced that while doing games via gamespy with people who didnt reinstall the game, i mean bts, perhaps even whole civ itsself, after the latest bts patch from sept. (theres another way to fix but this is most secure imo).
... this oos prob cant be fixed with a simple reload, even in bts. and fixing oos with reload in ffh works 99% of all time for us.

did you try to play a normal bts game together? if you get oos even without events, then you found your prob (does not happen all the time).

i have some other suspicions, but i guess nothing that would really help you here now. perhaps we should try playing a game together

 

[Goodgimp]

i think there could be another reason why you get oos so often, and i feel i must tell you, perhaps you dont know that...
after getting the latest patch from bts (that you need if you want access to gamespy mp lobby, 3.13 i think), did you all reinstall your game (bts)?

if not, it is most likely this is causing this problem! i've often experienced that while doing games via gamespy with people who didnt reinstall the game, i mean bts, perhaps even whole civ itsself, after the latest bts patch from sept. (theres another way to fix but this is most secure imo).
... this oos prob cant be fixed with a simple reload, even in bts. and fixing oos with reload in ffh works 99% of all time for us.

did you try to play a normal bts game together? if you get oos even without events, then you found your prob (does not happen all the time).

i have some other suspicions, but i guess nothing that would really help you here now. perhaps we should try playing a game together

You're saying to reinstall BTS after applying the 3.13 patch?? Wouldn't that just require you to repatch again?

 

[leo.]

You're saying to reinstall BTS after applying the 3.13 patch?? Wouldn't that just require you to repatch again?

i know that sounds strange but exactly that fixes the problem. of course you need to patch.

edit: if you want to read more about it, there is a thread about exactly that somewhere in this in this forum, if you find it....

 

[Calbrenar]

So you're suggesting after Installing Civ 4 -> Warlords -> BTS -> Patch 3.13 -> Unofficial 3.13 I should then reinstall BTS then install 3.13 and the unofficial 3.13?

How many eople use Bhruic's unofficial 3.13 patch? I think its required for FFH right?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I never downloaded the unofficial patch, and have had no problems with FfH. I think that Bhruics patch mostly makes SDK changes, which would be included in FfH's custom DLL anyway.

 

[Calbrenar]

Maybe that's why we get so many OOS problems. I will remove BTS completely and install without the 3.13 patch. I think the only reason I installed it was it was mentioned in the install instructions for FFH at some point. Its certainly not something I would have found on my own.

 

[xienwolf]

You do not need Bhruic's Unofficial patch. All that does is some small changes in the SDK, which Kael incorporated into FfH already. And since FfH has a unique DLL, application of anything to the DLL or BtS will not affect FfH

Removal of 3.13 completely will make FfH unplayable. It is possible that doing the re-install post-patch overwrites files which cause problems, but leaves intact some files which allow you to play anyhow. Seems wierd though.

 

[Gallack]

Kael has many times posted some helpful hints for people to isolate OOS issues for him. In general it is met with much enthusiasm, but then nobody actually DOES anything, or they do a lot of playing, but don't follow any of the hints he provided and thus don't find much of anything of actual use.

As for not developing new content till they fix it: Sorry to sound harsh, but too bad.

The developers are making this mod for their own reasons, and have stated that the Single Player mode is what the game is being designed for. Yes, they do value the Multiplayer aspects. But they WILL NOT put their development (what they enjoy) on hold to support it. Especially because, as you pointed out, there is a very limited core of the team who is actually capable of coding. The others are ideas, stories, and artwork. Add to that the fact that you CANNOT guarantee that in a given testing period they will even HAVE an OOS, and thus they must devote weeks of time to the prospect...


So yes, PLEASE do what you can do gather a group of people who, like yourself, will devote a chunk of their own time to simply playing the game in a manner which is devoted to testing and isolating issues. THEN approach Kael for advice on how precisely to go about it. I am certain that after you demonstrate that testing is actually being done that you would even get support from the Team in the form of custom downloads or options which are meant for testing purposes (like an Event File which has everything disabled that is just a random event. Though you could rather easily make this yourself as a first step to testing).



Even for just the single player game, many things don't get fully tested and tweaked before being released. For the sake of speed most testing is done on small maps with few players. So things like Blight hitting once for every player can go unnoticed rather easily. But this is still just a BETA release, which happens to have been made playable and open to the public for playing/testing. From what I understand, the main goal right now is to get all of the mechanics into the game which are desired for the Scenarios. That has been the driving goal for the Team since pretty much Day 1.

Once the Scenarios are out, you can expect a LOT of testing and tweaking of them. Then work on refining the storyline and balance of them. Then work on the AI. Then probably a chance of some Team devotion to working on the Multiplayer issues. Till then, it all relies upon the community stepping up to do the testing and being able to post: This is the Problem. This is a way to fix it. Once such a post is made, it gets included in the next patch far more often than not (and the not case is generally because that wasn't the proper solution, and nobody can figure out why).

EDIT: Seeing Mailo post reminded me that there was quite some work done recently by a small group, which is the main reason that last OOS issues thread got to be so large. I just didn't want to leave it sounding like absolutely nobody has ever done anything, when in fact some people have attempted to do a little fairly recently.

I Didn't realize that FFH was primarily a single player game....Anyway, yeah sure, the lot of us that were testing here and there with different settings and what not and were following the other thread on OOS maybe could have done more.

That being said, its hard when many us do not code either, nevermind never having had any creative hand in the making of this mod--I don't know it inside and out like someone who coded the game. The lot of us can really only load the game, play, and relaod/rehost or make a new game/change settings/ad nauseum --and we are happy to do so. But the frustration here is the very fact that there is no pattern really. If we had found real solutions, or felt like we were hot on the trail to a fix, then yes, of course we would post them or ask for help/feedback from you gentlemen. But we haven't found anything. I don't know how many hours me and my online partner have put into trying to track down the problem(s). But I guess if single play is the priority for now than there is not much anyone can do.

We have followed Kael's advice, along with many others on that thread, its just that we never found anything worth mentioning. Not even a pattern. So, like in our case, I think this particular thread was started because the multiplaying community for FFH has no one else to turn to really. Anyway, we will continue to try, hope you all can find someone who still wants to test.

 

[Calbrenar]

we reinstalled without warlords or bhruics patch. I immediately picked Sheim (since we have the most OOS issues and CTD's with them). We only got about 70 turns in ( i started right near barbatos yay ;x) so i'm sure we'll continue it tonight. Hopefully I will have more data (even more hopefully we won't have any oos lol)

 

[xienwolf]

Well, I don't know if it was pointed out, and for someone who isn't a code-monkey it might not be obvious, but some of the most valuable information is telling us where there is NO pattern.

Like if you ran with events off, and still got OOS from time to time, probably almost as frequently asa with them on, that is good to know. If you excluded a Civ from your games and still got OOS, also good to know.


Basically it isn't so much looking for a pattern as it is ruling out possible patterns. So anything that you set for a restriction on yourself (Like "we will play 5 games with all Civilizations except Lanun") and still wind up with an OOS is good feedback, because it lets us know not to look in certain areas.

 

[wayeward]

Well, I don't know if it was pointed out, and for someone who isn't a code-monkey it might not be obvious, but some of the most valuable information is telling us where there is NO pattern.

Like if you ran with events off, and still got OOS from time to time, probably almost as frequently asa with them on, that is good to know. If you excluded a Civ from your games and still got OOS, also good to know.


Basically it isn't so much looking for a pattern as it is ruling out possible patterns. So anything that you set for a restriction on yourself (Like "we will play 5 games with all Civilizations except Lanun") and still wind up with an OOS is good feedback, because it lets us know not to look in certain areas.

heya we have decided to try some REAL testing now in light of the new interest (we had given up before but I miss my FFH so here goes). Any suggestions on how to start? I thought a tiny/small map with about 6 civs with no events/counter/barbs/and everything off possible? good or no?

 

[xienwolf]

Always best to start with everything off then work your way up in chunks if it was a very reliable problem with everything on. So that is a good start. Also disable unique features I'd say. Maybe even religions just to start with.

Then add in about half of what you cut out if that works without any problems (but do 10 games or so without anything on, whatever it takes to make you CERTAIN that there are no problems, but definitely more than 1)

 

[Soam]

Then add in about half of what you cut out if that works without any problems (but do 10 games or so without anything on, whatever it takes to make you CERTAIN that there are no problems, but definitely more than 1)

Well considering we get OOS EVERY single game before or shortly after 100 turns in I'd say one game without it would convince me. And we did it! Granted we had everything off... post to follow.

 

[wayeward]

Always best to start with everything off then work your way up in chunks if it was a very reliable problem with everything on. So that is a good start. Also disable unique features I'd say. Maybe even religions just to start with.

Then add in about half of what you cut out if that works without any problems (but do 10 games or so without anything on, whatever it takes to make you CERTAIN that there are no problems, but definitely more than 1)

Ok, so we tried a game with NOTHING on. We didn't do ten, but were excited simply because we have never gotten through a game without OOS until today, felt good. So apologies in advance. Anyway, heres the list of stats/settings and things we disabled:

Computers: Vista home and Vista home
Patch 031D (patch D)
Tiny map (inland sea)
Simultaneous Turns
638 turns (with no OOS)
Marthon speed
4 civs (Luchiurp and Doviello as AI, Khazad and Malakim as human players)
No Barbarians
No lairs
No tech trading
no Baron Duin Halfmorn
no tribal villages
(debug) disabled events
Hallowed ground (no counter)
Compact enforced
no unique features
no religions
no archeron
no orthus

NOTE: The odd world spell that was cast (along with my getting to currency first and founding the Guild of Nine and summoning Mercenaries) did nothing either to seemingly cause OOS. Though I suppose that enough of them of a larger map with more civs might cause problems.

Next game we will try just turning the counter on with barbarians as well, perhaps. See what happens.

 

[xienwolf]

Well, for the sake of speed you should turn on either 1 or 2 things that you think are fairly likely culprits, or turn on a large list of things that will make playing future test games more enjoyable. In the first case hope for problems, and in the latter, hope for none

And thanks for taking the time to test things out

 

[wayeward]

Well, for the sake of speed you should turn on either 1 or 2 things that you think are fairly likely culprits, or turn on a large list of things that will make playing future test games more enjoyable. In the first case hope for problems, and in the latter, hope for none

And thanks for taking the time to test things out

EDIT-UPDATED REPORT

No problem, but just to let you know, thats what we did before and always had OOS issues, frankly I am shocked that even playing with the amount of things turned off as we did we did not have any. Boring this way, yes, but at least it might help us narrow down whats causing the issue.

We started another game, the only thing we turned on/changed from the previous test was the

Epic speed
map type Tiny (Creation)
counter (enabled)
barbarians (enabled)
advanced start (enabled)
2 more AI (Amelanchier and Perpentach)

We have finished the game now and made it to turn 469 with no OOS errors. Next game we will add Raging barbs, barbarian leaders (Archeron, etc), and religions. We will let you know how it goes.

 

[Calbrenar]

What installation state are you using wayeward? If you want to try testing some games with more people we could get together and do a 4 player. Calbrenar on aim

 

[Soam]

What installation state are you using wayeward? If you want to try testing some games with more people we could get together and do a 4 player. Calbrenar on aim

BTS 3.13 (nothing special done to it unlike what was mentioned above) and FFH 0.31 patch d.