The OOS Issues that Plague This Game

I have XP on one machine and Vista on other. Without Basium or Hyborem, we had practically no OOS. So even with different OS a game can be run, I guess.
 
TheJopa said:
I have XP on one machine and Vista on other. Without Basium or Hyborem, we had practically no OOS. So even with different OS a game can be run, I guess.
Click to expand...

We still get OOS with that same config
 
After learning about the logging options available in civilization4.ini, we tried to find out what was causing the problem in our latest game. As best as I can tell, nothing went out of sync at all!

First logs we played through the previous turn. Second log we saved right before hitting end turn. In both cases, the only differences between the logs were in random numbers marked ASYNC. Every action was generated the same on both our computers, but the game decided we were out of sync. I have no idea why the seed number on the OOS message changes either - that doesn't make any sense.

Second log example:
My log:
Code: 
...
Rand = 962384084 on 20167 (Combat)
Rand = 203272829 on 20167 (Combat)
Rand = -21674638 on 20167 (Withdrawal)
Rand = 1451457987 on 20167 (Enslavement)

***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1596219392 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 74126336 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1864692736 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = -635905024 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1682930688 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 2024676352 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = -1053508608 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1078875136 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****

different numbers past this point

His log:
Code: 
...
Rand = 962384084 on 20167 (Combat)
Rand = 203272829 on 20167 (Combat)
Rand = -21674638 on 20167 (Withdrawal)
Rand = 1451457987 on 20167 (Enslavement)

***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1596219392 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 74126336 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1864692736 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = -635905024 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1682930688 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 2024676352 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = -1053508608 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****


***** OUT OF SYNC! MY SYNC SEED = 1742953472 : MY OPTIONS SEED = 22747990 *****

different numbers past this point


View attachment result1.txt
View attachment result2.txt
 
As I recall, you can specify what seed you want to use for Sync Checks in your ini. Maybe setting that personally to ensure they are the same might help?
 
Tried that Xienwolf, and this time we got a real OOS. :)

Everything was going fine until (left arrow is my computer (XP), right arrow is his (Vista)):
Code: 
...
< Rand = -2001730330 on 15705 (AI Patrol)
< Rand = 72636967 on 15705 (AI Patrol)
< Rand = 747402452 on 15705 (AI Patrol)
< Rand = -211908995 on 15705 (AI Patrol)
---
> Rand = -2001730330 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 72636967 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 747402452 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -211908995 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
91894c91869
< Rand = 440074158 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
---
> Rand = 440074158 on 15705 (AI explore)
91915c91890
< Rand = 827919707 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
---
> Rand = 827919707 on 15705 (AI explore)
91917c91892
< Rand = 218189521 on 15705 (AI make explore faster ;))
...

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anything obvious such an event was the problem. Instead, there were 4 AI patrols on my computer that didn't happen on his - perhaps from a unit that existed only on my end? Too bad the logging isn't more detailed, although the files are large enough as it is.

Loaded up an autosave from the turn before to see if the same problem would repeat, and we ended up with a different sequence of events and an OOS.

Code: 
...
< Rand = -477424729 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = -597790636 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = -815293443 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = -1017990926 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = -1454685373 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = 207371712 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = -526976263 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = -162076098 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = 1213517983 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = 1571255788 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = 113462709 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
< Rand = 1909681226 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
---
> Rand = -477424729 on 15706 (First Strike)
> Rand = -597790636 on 15706 (First Strike)
> Rand = -815293443 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = -1017990926 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = -1454685373 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = 207371712 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = -526976263 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = -162076098 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = 1213517983 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = 1571255788 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = 113462709 on 15706 (Combat)
> Rand = 1909681226 on 15706 (Withdrawal)
18532,18547c18483,18498
< Rand = 394581297 on 15706 (AI Patrol)
< Rand = -781589482 on 15706 (AI Patrol)
< Rand = 1821966743 on 15706 (First Strike)
< Rand = 1835786116 on 15706 (First Strike)
< Rand = -652176531 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = 320351138 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = 1608654899 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = -1819709456 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = 893385065 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = -1166974994 on 15706 (Withdrawal)
< Rand = -1919644529 on 15706 (Enslavement)
< Rand = -1867670756 on 15706 (First Strike)
< Rand = -1831484635 on 15706 (First Strike)
< Rand = -99119878 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = 743924395 on 15706 (Combat)
< Rand = 1015500040 on 15706 (Combat)
---
> Rand = 394581297 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -781589482 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 1821966743 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 1835786116 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -652176531 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 320351138 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 1608654899 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -1819709456 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = 893385065 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -1166974994 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -1919644529 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -1867670756 on 15706 (AI make explore faster ;))
> Rand = -1831484635 on 15706 (AI Patrol)
> Rand = -99119878 on 15706 (AI Patrol)
> Rand = 743924395 on 15706 (First Strike)
> Rand = 1015500040 on 15706 (First Strike)
...

Obviously screwed after that point. This time, I had some exploration before the combat, which then went differently for me because of the OOS. Seems consistent with the extra unit theory, or maybe my AI just decided to do some extra patrols that his didn't.

We're both on patch e (or so he claims!) It'd actually be nice to have a subversion displayed on the splash page (or even the MP lobby) to make sure no one messed up their installs.

Attached is our 2 player save if that's useful at all. Don't laugh at how terribly we were doing. :)

If there's anything more we can do to help or other ideas for debugging, let us know. I think he's just going to get XP so we don't have to deal with this anymore. Whenever people tell me how great Vista is and how they don't have problems with it, I just think of this game.:(

View attachment result3.txt
View attachment result4.txt
View attachment OOS next turn starts 112.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
I HAVE PATCH E! :scan:
 
ShadowDrgn said:
If there's anything more we can do to help or other ideas for debugging, let us know. I think he's just going to get XP so we don't have to deal with this anymore. Whenever people tell me how great Vista is and how they don't have problems with it, I just think of this game.:(
Click to expand...

Nothing is wrong with Vista it's when you use it with XP and this game that problems arise. Two Vista computers work just fine.
 
Soam said:
Nothing is wrong with Vista it's when you use it with XP and this game that problems arise. Two Vista computers work just fine.
Click to expand...

I second that motion. Out of our gaming crew of 4-5 rotating members, the only hack that causes us any OOS issues is the dude using XP with all of our VISTA machines.
 
look me up on the hamachi channel then, i am always looking for a vista game haha until i get xp on a separate partition, but i still would like to see this problem fixed.
 
oh yeah, they did ;) but still getting oos often, even got one on turn 1 today... :lol:
 
A notable occurrence I have noticed over the past week, along with the data that SHDWDRGN and I have collected.

WE were getting a game breaking OOS in almost every FFH2 gamed played. When we looked at the sync logs for the game on the turn the OOS occurred, it appeared that the AI was creating or assigning a unit on his PC that was being created or assigned differently on my PC.

Upon playing FF this past week, we have had NO game breaking OOS, only first turn OOS that seemed to stem from the "flavor" starts. ( sometimes a crash would occur or OOS on turn one that seemed to stem from one person being located in two different starting areas)

Are the AI functions handled differently in FF than in FFH2?
 
ushram said:
Upon playing FF this past week, we have had NO game breaking OOS, only first turn OOS that seemed to stem from the "flavor" starts. (sometimes a crash would occur or OOS on turn one that seemed to stem from one person being located in two different starting areas)
Click to expand...

I fixed this OOS at first turn issue in FlavourMod 2.1.0. It should be inculded in the next version of Fall Further. The fixed version for Fall from Heaven 0.33f you can get already in the mods section, if you want

Technical explanation: The problem was a list of sorted tuples. I wanted to sort the list items by their first tuple elements (integers), but accidentally sorted it also by their second tuple elements (objects). That's no problem in single player games, but in multiplayer the pointers to the object memory addresses will be different on different computers. So the list almost certainly would end up sorted differently -> OOS errors, if you use elements of the list later on. Conclusion: Never sort a list of objects!
 
Jean Elcard said:
I fixed this OOS at first turn issue in FlavourMod 2.1.0. It should be inculded in the next version of Fall Further. The fixed version for Fall from Heaven 0.33f you can get already in the mods section, if you want

Technical explanation: The problem was a list of sorted tuples. I wanted to sort the list items by their first tuple elements (integers), but accidentally sorted it also by their second tuple elements (objects). That's no problem in single player games, but in multiplayer the pointers to the object memory addresses will be different on different computers. So the list almost certainly would end up sorted differently -> OOS errors, if you use elements of the list later on. Conclusion: Never sort a list of objects!
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply :) its nice to know some mod'rs are still reading this.
Just too bad the my xp friends will not play the game with me any more due to frustration of constant oos :(

I might have to load up xp on another partition just to play with them lol
 
If anyone is interested in checking things out, this is a great guide about OOS issues. Not sure if the OOS logger is already included in the FfH Codebase, if not it would be quite a welcome addition. But if it is included already, people need to know about it and start using it to find the errors a bit easier.
 
I am curious, are most of the people like myself that get constant OOS using Hamachi or gamespy?
 
Hi, me and my friend are using:
[Civ] <-> OpenVPN/Winxp <-> WWW <-> OpenVPN/Winxp <-> [Civ]

openVPN works linke a charm once you figured out how to make certificats, but is is very nice to fool games to think that you're in a LAN but actually sitting on two sides of the city.

we would also like to see some reduced oos accurence, therefor, if we can perform any tests to serve development/fixing name them, we'll try.
 
birdspider said:
Hi, me and my friend are using:
[Civ] <-> OpenVPN/Winxp <-> WWW <-> OpenVPN/Winxp <-> [Civ]

openVPN works linke a charm once you figured out how to make certificats, but is is very nice to fool games to think that you're in a LAN but actually sitting on two sides of the city.

we would also like to see some reduced oos accurence, therefor, if we can perform any tests to serve development/fixing name them, we'll try.
Click to expand...

Well, the reason i am asking if most of the people getting OOS are using Hamachi, is that i have noticed a extreme deduction from a test i have done the past two days.

I have played 5 games in the past 2 days, each game we started using Hamachi. We kept getting OOS every 5 -10 turns on average. We would then switch it to gamespy. In ALL the games, once switched to gamespy, we did not get ANY OOS. Most of the games lasted an excess of 100 turns after switching to GS.

I have never been a supporter of GS, but in this case of FFH2, i suggest that others try to test this as well.
 
ushram said:
Well, the reason i am asking if most of the people getting OOS are using Hamachi, is that i have noticed a extreme deduction from a test i have done the past two days.

I have played 5 games in the past 2 days, each game we started using Hamachi. We kept getting OOS every 5 -10 turns on average. We would then switch it to gamespy. In ALL the games, once switched to gamespy, we did not get ANY OOS. Most of the games lasted an excess of 100 turns after switching to GS.

I have never been a supporter of GS, but in this case of FFH2, i suggest that others try to test this as well.
Click to expand...

we use neither GS neither Hamachi and we are getting OOS. when we get to 200 or 300 turns it went OOS.
 
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