The Organized RPG II-Now with extra stuff!

[GeorgeOP]

Unfortunately, the land pricing system is designed for this type of manipulation. It is really great that you have created a method that values a flood plain more than a desert tile. But, the value of a tile changes over the course of the game without any intervention by the owner of that tile. It is further complicated by the fact that a tile improvement costs 100 gold if it is already built, but is free if built after purchase. Thus, the optimal strategy becomes to buy unimproved tiles and then get elected governor.

Land value fluctuates greatly in real life for no reason of the owners. My parents bought a house in 86 for $50K. I bought it from them in 03 for $120K. It has just been apraised for $154K. I did nothing to the land, it simply went up in value because of what the government has been doing in the area. The difference is that in cIV, I can look at a tile and I know exactally how much it will be worth after it is improved. Also, you don't get a bonus for it being worked. It costs an extra 100 gold to buy, but you don't get extra money for it. That was because those plots are so valuable already, I wanted a system that helped make it more expensive. It was cheap and easy for me to implement, but you see the problem with the easy meathod.

I didn't mean I would play two characters. I said since my character got deleted, I would create a new one that was different. I said I'd play a little of both, meaning I'd quest sometimes and be a hoarde other times, however I was feeling at the time. By hoarde, I simply meant someone who buys land and uses it to make money, never using their stats. Other people will want to quest and use their stats to gain money. We need to find someway to allow both, imho.

 

[Conroe]

heres how i see the stats working though this may be different to what everyone else thinks,

armed combat
unarmed combat
horsemanship
etc

these i think would give more use to the stats as would then allow such things as chariot racing, fighting etc, with winners etc recieving bonuses maybe stats or money. or recieving money as a prize and then over the course of a few tournaments they gain a stat point or something?

Now, that looks interesting!

Are you proposing something on the order of civ's promotion system? In other words, characters accumulate experience points that can be used towards promotions? Alternatively, it could be skills that are learned (at an Academy) and then experience using that skill could be acquired through tournaments. Someone could then start up a business teaching combat training while someone else builds a colosseum and runs tournaments.

Either way, Armed Combat II is a lot more interesting than Str=7 and Agi=8.

It was cheap and easy for me to implement, but you see the problem with the easy meathod.

I can certainly understand why the current cost/benefit structure was put into place. It's not that it is a bad system; it does have certain advantages. Just so long as everyone is aware that it is also subject to manipulation and certain inefficiencies.

Then how about when land is developed within the game, you have to pay half the price as it would cost for each upgrade before you recieve the bonus.

Personally, I would remove the in-game development of land from the RPG. That is the only way that you will truly remove manipulation or the apppearance of manipulation from the RPG. The price of the land should be fixed based on the type of the tile rather than what the tile produces. Using your current pricing structure:

• desert tiles cost 50 gold and generate 5gpt
• grassland tiles cost 110 gold and generate 11gpt
• grassland river tiles cost 160 gold and generate 16gpt
• flood plain tiles cost 190 gold and generate 19gpt
• grassland hill tiles cost 110 gold and generate 11gpt

Anyway, you get the idea. The above numbers use the unimproved cost/benefit of the tile. If a cottage is built on that flood plain, the RPG value does not change: it still generates 19gpt. In order to improve the value of the land, you must build something on it (ie a business) within the RPG.

how about then a reason to spend the large amounts of money? maybe a conflict system between tiles as swiss was talking about awhile back? buying units etc.

Ah, now there's the $64,000 question. What do you spend the money on? Can you elaborate on the conflict system? Are you talking about hiring mercenaries to wrest control (and ownership) of a neighboring tile?

 

[BCLG100]

Now, that looks interesting!

Are you proposing something on the order of civ's promotion system? In other words, characters accumulate experience points that can be used towards promotions? Alternatively, it could be skills that are learned (at an Academy) and then experience using that skill could be acquired through tournaments. Someone could then start up a business teaching combat training while someone else builds a colosseum and runs tournaments.

Either way, Armed Combat II is a lot more interesting than Str=7 and Agi=8.

Thats what i was thinking, however just wondering what everyone else thinks, it allows the buissness part of the rpg to interlock with the rpg part of it.

I can certainly understand why the current cost/benefit structure was put into place. It's not that it is a bad system; it does have certain advantages. Just so long as everyone is aware that it is also subject to manipulation and certain inefficiencies.

Personally, I would remove the in-game development of land from the RPG. That is the only way that you will truly remove manipulation or the apppearance of manipulation from the RPG. The price of the land should be fixed based on the type of the tile rather than what the tile produces. Using your current pricing structure:

• desert tiles cost 50 gold and generate 5gpt
• grassland tiles cost 110 gold and generate 11gpt
• grassland river tiles cost 160 gold and generate 16gpt
• flood plain tiles cost 190 gold and generate 19gpt
• grassland hill tiles cost 110 gold and generate 11gpt

Anyway, you get the idea. The above numbers use the unimproved cost/benefit of the tile. If a cottage is built on that flood plain, the RPG value does not change: it still generates 19gpt. In order to improve the value of the land, you must build something on it (ie a business) within the RPG.

seems like a reasonable way however maybe could round the figures, so its 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. also land prices need to be more expensive, though i appreciate this was only an example.

Ah, now there's the $64,000 question. What do you spend the money on? Can you elaborate on the conflict system? Are you talking about hiring mercenaries to wrest control (and ownership) of a neighboring tile

exactly what i was thinking, this causes people who want to get involved in land have to do something with it rather than just sit there with it and let it accumulate wealth for them.

 

[moonshine_MS]

Ah, now there's the $64,000 question. What do you spend the money on? Can you elaborate on the conflict system? Are you talking about hiring mercenaries to wrest control (and ownership) of a neighboring tile?

Whish could be a business? Ownership of Mercenaries.This gets more interesting as i look through.

I vouch for the hording/questing RPG, as this will incorporate two fun aspects intothe game. I also agree with the fixed price terrain tile idea.

Just my 2pence, now I'm off to bed.

 

[robboo]

I liek the land value system we have in place. and the income it seems balanced. Fixed tiels cost woudl not let anyone purchse inhope of big gains. Its call land speculation and it is a killer concept for the RPG---think long term and Uranium.

 

[BCLG100]

Whish could be a business? Ownership of Mercenaries.This gets more interesting as i look through.

I vouch for the hording/questing RPG, as this will incorporate two fun aspects intothe game. I also agree with the fixed price terrain tile idea.

Just my 2pence, now I'm off to bed.

maybe not ownership of mercenaries but ownership of say equipment for war such as swords and stuff, it could be say assumed that wach tile comes with 100 men.

 

[Conroe]

I liek the land value system we have in place. and the income it seems balanced. Fixed tiels cost woudl not let anyone purchse inhope of big gains. Its call land speculation and it is a killer concept for the RPG---think long term and Uranium.

Well, you were the one that was originally concerned about manipulation. That is why I suggested a flat rate system.

maybe not ownership of mercenaries but ownership of say equipment for war such as swords and stuff, it could be say assumed that wach tile comes with 100 men.

Well, if you implement your suggestion to replace the stats with a learned skill system, land owners could then "hire" other RPG characters for this purpose. Those folks would have to purchase their weapons from a business that sells weapons. Just a thought ...

 

[BCLG100]

thats an idea but a 'war' couldnt really be fought between like 5 or 10 people so they could be in command of an army, however skills such as unarmed combat and chariot races wont really apply as much there.

 

[jimbob27]

Totally off topic here..... but I know the topic of BCLG100's signature.

Popeye's balls!!!!!

 

[BCLG100]

thanks for that jim planning on joining the rpg then?

 

[Conroe]

thats an idea but a 'war' couldnt really be fought between like 5 or 10 people so they could be in command of an army, however skills such as unarmed combat and chariot races wont really apply as much there.

Well in you take about 5 or 10 units to attack an enemy city defended by 3 or 4 units. Your best attacker is matched up to the best defender and the RNG determines the winner.

Same concept in the RPG. I, as land owner, have archer training and I own a bow. You, a neighboring land owner, have unarmed combat and chariot. If you own a chariot, your chariot skills will be taken into consideration. If not, only your unarmed combat will be considered. Throw it all into an RNG and determine a winner. One on one combat ... the victor gets the spoils ... whatever they are ...

The concept is doable. Obviously, though, many of the details would need to be fleshed out before it is ready for prime time.

 

[BCLG100]

I see what you mean, these skills could then be transferred over in to tournaments and the such like, therefore would be some importance for being skilled in unarmed combat. however much as i like talking about new rules is the majority of the rest of the rules alright and if so what stats should we include, so far i can think of.

unarmed combat
combat with sword
combat with spear
archery
horse archery (do we have that tech yet?)
chariot racing
horse racing
horseback fighting.

how about this, tournaments where you can gain small monetry rewards and build stats but the combat field is where there put into practise

 

[Conroe]

however much as i like talking about new rules is the majority of the rest of the rules alright and if so what stats should we include, so far i can think of.

Good list ... Looks like you are just going through the units and matching them up with skills. Definitely works for me. What about skills like Horse Archery require the student to already have a knowledge of Horsemanship or Archery? Just a thought ...

I think you should include the labor skills, as well. If someone wants to work in a construction company building houses, they better have the cottaging skill. Or, if someone wants to open a Savings & Loan, they would need banking skills. Maybe even have an entrepeneur skill before someone can open a business ... You can take it as far as you like ...

Do the skills have different levels of experience? In other words, is there Archery I, Archery II, ... Archery N? In other words, attend an academy to gain the Archery skill, and then through combat (or even more training) pick up experience to get to Archery I. Or does that get too complicated for someone to manage?

how about this, tournaments where you can gain small monetry rewards and build stats but the combat field is where there put into practise

I think tournaments should be run by business owners of a colosseum. Let them charge whatever entry fee they want and provide whatever rewards to the winners.

 

[BCLG100]

Well yes they should give out the monetary rewards, theres no reason to say you HAVE to have a colosseum to have a tournament, just a piece of land, however realism should dictate that people who take part in tournaments more would get better, so like the number of tournaments taken part in would increase another stat point.

so if originally had a strength skill of 6, that person takes part in 7 tournaments skill is then raised to 7. then they have a skill level of 7 so if they took part in another 8 tournaments that skill would rise to 8 and so on and so forth.

stuff such as labour stuff could go under a different skills section though, the combat system could be stats while non combat could be skills.

 

[Conroe]

however realism should dictate that people who take part in tournaments more would get better, so like the number of tournaments taken part in would increase another stat point.

If a person participates in 7 tournaments and loses in all 7, have they really gotten any better? I think the tournament winner should be the only person to have an opportunity for advancement.

so if originally had a strength skill of 6,

I'm a little confused here by your use of strength skill. I was under the impression that you were proposing that the strength, agility, etc. stats be replaced with a skill-type system. Maybe I misunderstood you -- defintely possible.

Frankly, I do not understand the stats system that is in the ruleset. I realize that I have 10 points to divide up amongst 8 stats. But, I don't really know how those stats are used within the game to determine an outcome to an event. And without that knowledge, I cannot make an intelligible decision of what my stats would be. That, BTW, is the main reason that I have yet to register for the RPG.

 

[BCLG100]

ah i was merely using strength as an example, a better oen would of course been

unarmed combat of 6 etc. my fault so my apologies.

Ah well i havnt changed the stats in the main page just yet because we havnt finalised a stat list.

stats i seee as this
unarmed combat
combat with sword
combat with spear
archery
horse archery (do we have that tech yet?)
chariot racing
horse racing
horseback fighting.

skills as
comunications
fishing
entertaining
building etc,

maybe we could limit the skills as well, say 2/3 per person?

 

[moonshine_MS]

*coughs* Wants a rogue-ish skill, like Assassination or something.

 

[robboo]

no horse archery yet...as SoW I asked not to research it so we can maintain our UU longer. Since our UU is better than horse archers.

Yeah add something like "run away" also...You never know when you might have to fight a killer rabbit.

 

[BCLG100]

Creating a Character

To create a character you need
Name (we much prefer if you give your character a name similar (or exactly the same) to your forum name)
Age
Gender
*Biography/Physical Appearance

*Optional

Stats

To enhance your character you can give it various stats, the stats all initially have 5 points in, you have 10 additional points you can spend on each one, and you can only gain additional points through bonuses.

unarmed combat
combat with sword
combat with spear
archery
chariot racing
horse racing


Skills
Optional as well

Spoiler :

Skills are another section to enhance the believability of your character, your character receives 2, and once again the management will award bonuses for people that maintain their skills in a role-playing situation.


Cooking
Tracking
Carpentry
Smithing
Healing
Communication.

any other skills anyone can think of? maybe assasination when we get spys moonshine??? i highlighted the changed bits.

 

[robboo]

Merit flaws dont make much sense since those traits that it effects arent listed any more..unless we are still keeping them and I misunderstood.

Also Chariot racing is listed twice...