The Outcome System

[AIAndy]

How will we we do the "butcher" outcome. I have the data and button but I am not sure how to activate it. The idea was for three types
- butcher in wild (ie not inside your cultural borders) where the result is the same as kill in combat
- butcher inside cultural boarders result = twice kill in combat plus money
- butcher in city result = twice kill in combat plus twice money.

The actions are not yet in. That part I still need to code.
But once they are in you will define actions and then link the action to an outcome list in the unit info. That means the outcomes define what the action will do on that unit.
To model the behavior you describe I also need to add the ability to restrict outcomes to inside/outside cultural borders and inside/outside of cities. That will be in the outcome types.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Good.

I have just done all the animals but not subdued animals then I realised that I had not done the resource replacement.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@AIAndy I think I have all the XML done. Is the outcome system on? If so I shall turn off the Subdue Animal python.

Edit Well that answers that, I just subdued 2 badgers. You need to get the messaging working.

 

[AIAndy]

@AIAndy I think I have all the XML done. Is the outcome system on? If so I shall turn off the Subdue Animal python.

Edit Well that answers that, I just subdued 2 badgers. You need to get the messaging working.

That is the next item on my list.

 

[AIAndy]

Most of the code for the subdued animal actions is written but not the AI and the XML for it will be needed as well.
So I assume it is best to move that to the next version with the feature freeze starting today.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@AIAndy as I have been thinking for quite awhile and as Koshling has suggested it would be preferrable if subdued sea critters were returned to the nearest coastal city. This is because they are stories about those animals not the animals themselves. This changes later in th game where you do indeed need to get an animal home to stock that aquarium. This means that I may need two outcomes. Is this doable? Or to be more correct do you have the time to do it?

 

[AIAndy]

@AIAndy as I have been thinking for quite awhile and as Koshling has suggested it would be preferrable if subdued sea critters were returned to the nearest coastal city. This is because they are stories about those animals not the animals themselves. This changes later in th game where you do indeed need to get an animal home to stock that aquarium. This means that I may need two outcomes. Is this doable? Or to be more correct do you have the time to do it?

Certainly doable. I just need to add more conditions to the outcome types. Depending on which condition do you want to switch?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Certainly doable. I just need to add more conditions to the outcome types. Depending on which condition do you want to switch?

Oh great did I put the outcome stuff in the subdued animals because they should be the same as wild ones?

What I am thinking is that sea creatures will be "subdueable" as tales up until you have a certain tech after which point they can be captured in the normal way. These tales will still look like animals but will behave differently. When subdued they will immediately be moved to the nearest coastal city. If I can work it right they will then be able to be re-based to other cities otherwise they will be coastal only units.

Units captured as fish will be handled as they now are. It may be useful to do similar with the land animals also but only have them subdued as tales if they are at great distances from the nearest cities.

 

[AIAndy]

Oh great did I put the outcome stuff in the subdued animals because they should be the same as wild ones?

What I am thinking is that sea creatures will be "subdueable" as tales up until you have a certain tech after which point they can be captured in the normal way. These tales will still look like animals but will behave differently. When subdued they will immediately be moved to the nearest coastal city. If I can work it right they will then be able to be re-based to other cities otherwise they will be coastal only units.

Units captured as fish will be handled as they now are. It may be useful to do similar with the land animals also but only have them subdued as tales if they are at great distances from the nearest cities.

Ok, I will add the necessary conditions but I am away most of the weekend so it won't be finished until beginning of next week.

 

[Koshling]

One issue I have noticed with the outcome system is that the messaging is a bit weird.

I get messages of the form 'Your Tracker (London) has killed a Barbarian elephant' in green text, then sometime later I get a message in whiet text that originates from the outcome code that basically says the same thing, but also gives the yields that resulted.

Two points about this (both are fairly minor but would be nice if it could be tidied somehow):

1. It would be nice if an outcome message simply replaced the other message somehow. To do that however, you'd need a default outcome that at least generated the base message
2. If we get both messages it would be nice if they appeared one after the other (currently you seem to get all of one type for the turn, then all of the other)

Neither of these is exactly game breaking, but it just struck me is all

 

[AIAndy]

One issue I have noticed with the outcome system is that the messaging is a bit weird.

I get messages of the form 'Your Tracker (London) has killed a Barbarian elephant' in green text, then sometime later I get a message in whiet text that originates from the outcome code that basically says the same thing, but also gives the yields that resulted.

Two points about this (both are fairly minor but would be nice if it could be tidied somehow):

1. It would be nice if an outcome message simply replaced the other message somehow. To do that however, you'd need a default outcome that at least generated the base message
2. If we get both messages it would be nice if they appeared one after the other (currently you seem to get all of one type for the turn, then all of the other)

Neither of these is exactly game breaking, but it just struck me is all

The second one is just a different message type setting, easily changed.
While currently the outcome text says something pretty similar as the combat result report I don't think that will be the case later. Like when you use butchering or similar (that I currently implement).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is a mission "Explore Ancient Temple" somewhere. I need to hunt for it.

The icon would be useful for two new missions
- Explorer or Adventurer "Explore City Ruins"
- "Examine Subdued Animal"

Explore City Ruins - similar to events
- requires any city ruins (anywhere)
- small chance of treasure or points towards a tech

Examine Subdued Animal
- by subdued animal in a city
- Scribal school, 1-5
- Library, 1-10
- University, 10-20
- Biology Lab 10-40
Only one building considered ie the best.
- perhaps Governor's Menagerie, Zoo or Biodome should increase the science gained?

Edit @AIAndy, have you had chance to look at the subdue where the unit gets sent back to the nearest city yet? I am thinking of replacing all early subdued sea creatures with the "stories about" because it seems strange to be able to capture some of them so soon.

 

[AIAndy]

Edit @AIAndy, have you had chance to look at the subdue where the unit gets sent back to the nearest city yet? I am thinking of replacing all early subdued sea creatures with the "stories about" because it seems strange to be able to capture some of them so soon.

Just saw this edit. That feature is already in.
Set bUnitToCity in the outcome. That means the subdued unit is sent to the same city that the hammers or food would have been sent.
Also set bToCoastalCity in the outcome type. That way a coastal city is used.

 

[AIAndy]

There is a mission "Explore Ancient Temple" somewhere. I need to hunt for it.

The icon would be useful for two new missions
- Explorer or Adventurer "Explore City Ruins"
- "Examine Subdued Animal"

Explore City Ruins - similar to events
- requires any city ruins (anywhere)
- small chance of treasure or points towards a tech

Do you want the explorer unit used up by that or the city ruins removed? Or some outcomes that the explorer is killed?

 

[AIAndy]

Examine Subdued Animal
- by subdued animal in a city
- Scribal school, 1-5
- Library, 1-10
- University, 10-20
- Biology Lab 10-40
Only one building considered ie the best.

I just pushed a change to the SVN that adds the ReplaceOutcomes tag to outcome info XML which should allow you to implement this action.
The PrereqBuildings tag has already been in before (allows you to specify a list of buildings that need to be present for this outcome to be possible).

So you have an outcome type for each of the situations you describe that each require a building and use ReplaceOutcomes to replace the outcomes that are worse.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just saw this edit. That feature is already in.
Set bUnitToCity in the outcome. That means the subdued unit is sent to the same city that the hammers or food would have been sent.
Also set bToCoastalCity in the outcome type. That way a coastal city is used.

I am a bit dim this morning. Is this in the Outcomes file or the Unit file?

Do you want the explorer unit used up by that or the city ruins removed? Or some outcomes that the explorer is killed?

Interesting ideas, I had not thought this one through. I would want the ruins removed but if the adventurer finds something they need to survive to bring it back. If the adventurer dies then the ruins would stay.

I just pushed a change to the SVN that adds the ReplaceOutcomes tag to outcome info XML which should allow you to implement this action.
The PrereqBuildings tag has already been in before (allows you to specify a list of buildings that need to be present for this outcome to be possible).

So you have an outcome type for each of the situations you describe that each require a building and use ReplaceOutcomes to replace the outcomes that are worse.

I would have thought it was a mission like the butcher since it is the unit doing the action. However as I said I am a bit dim this morning, and I haven't even had my coffee yet.

Edit I have found a unit for captives so maybe we should look at moving the slavery mod into outcomes also. Also the new wonder Catacombs.

 

[AIAndy]

I am a bit dim this morning. Is this in the Outcomes file or the Unit file?

bUnitToCity is in the unit file (where the specific outcome is described).
bToCoastalCity is in the outcome type file (where outcome types are described).

Interesting ideas, I had not thought this one through. I would want the ruins removed but if the adventurer finds something they need to survive to bring it back. If the adventurer dies then the ruins would stay.

Then I will add a removal tag to the outcome. So you could have outcomes that give something and remove the ruin, some that give nothing and remove the ruin and some that kill the explorer but leave the ruin.

I would have thought it was a mission like the butcher since it is the unit doing the action. However as I said I am a bit dim this morning, and I haven't even had my coffee yet.

It is a mission of course. But the outcome list of that mission needs to have the capability to remove the worse outcomes (e.g. library) from the list when you have a better one available (e.g. university). That is what the new tag does.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK. So

1) I need a new out come for sea creatures only which transports them back to the city on being subdued.

2) I need to make 4 Examine_Animal outcomes for the mission.

Gotchya!

Edit perhaps I should explain my intent so you can tell me if I am using your system correctly. With sea creatures only when they are subdued they will return immediately to the nearest city. Before whaling only tales about the larger animals will be "subdued" not the animal itself so the city will get both the food and the tale unit. The chance of subduing the larger animals will increase with marine biology.

 

[AIAndy]

OK. So

1) I need a new out come for sea creatures only which transports them back to the city on being subdued.

2) I need to make 4 Examine_Animal outcomes for the mission.

Gotchya!

Edit perhaps I should explain my intent so you can tell me if I am using your system correctly. With sea creatures only when they are subdued they will return immediately to the nearest city. Before whaling only tales about the larger animals will be "subdued" not the animal itself so the city will get both the food and the tale unit. The chance of subduing the larger animals will increase with marine biology.

Correct, you make different outcome types for subdueing sea animals early (you only get the tale), subdueing sea animals late (after a prereq tech, set it to replace the earlier one or give the earlier one that tech as an obsolete tech) and subdueing sea animals with marine biology (higher chance).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@AIAndy My latest attempt with outcomes does not work the way I am expecting. Instead of getting "tales" until I get a tech which replaces them with "subdued" I am getting both! can you tell me what I a doing wrong