The power of Joao: Early REXing

[fugazi]

I don't know. I had all three AI's on my continent declare war on me at the same time and managed to not lose a single city. A lot of cities means a lot of production and if you're using monarchy to keep your people happy, you're power rating will be good anyways. Assign two or three cities to just pump out units nonstop that you garrison in the cities bordering rivals civs and you should be safe at least until the gunpowder era .. but that's the era where you'll start drafting.

 

[Moxxa]

For curiosity, I don't know how the AIs will allow you to do that. After 3.13/Bhuric patch they expand very fast, may not be 11 cities by AD, but at least 7-9 cities. Unless you have cleaned up your neighbour by early rushing. You will face the "border too close" issue and those aggressive AIs will start knocking on your door. To avoid that you need to keep up the power. I've tried to REX like that before but just keeping a decent army is very draining, not to mention in your case you're playing non-organized leader without courthouses. There will be a good chance AIs like Ragnar will be one era of tech ahead of you and blitz you with concentrated elite force when you can't afford even 3 defenders per city. I just think there is a decent risk in this strategy.

I agree. That's why I asked my previous question. The plan to get rifling before the AIs do sounds great on paper, but I would be very surprised if it actually works out that way. I don't see how expanding like this and totally crashing your economy leads to a tech advantage, but I very well could be overlooking something. Maybe post another screenie from 1000 AD or 1500 AD? Does this strategy actually work?

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Gilgamesh is definitely the best rexer. Cheap, early courthouses. Super quick border pops to block off even more land.

The ultimate rexer would be Zara Yaqob of Sumeria though. Borderline exploitative.

 

[pi-r8]

yep.

@ everybody: I know things look rough here, but I have a clear plan in mind with this game. I see each city as a barracks for rifle drafting. All I wanted to achieve was to REX hard to claim around a dozen cities. I did that. Now all I have to do is keep good diplo relations while I beat everyone to rifles. Assuming I can do that--I believe I can--then all I have to do is crank my economy enough to get to rifling first.

I know things look rough here, but I have already traded for monarchy and am planning on going hard on vertical growth now that horizontal growth is done. That will allow me to get commerce rolling which will allow me to turn the science slider up.

Once I am able to turn it up to 70% I should have the game well in hand. Once I hit rifling I think I would consider this game won.

I'm very skeptical that you'll be able to get rifling first here. It's 1AD, you're producing 28 beakers/turn and losing money at 0% science. And, at some point before rifiling you'll probably have to do something to defend yourself against your neighbors, who have no land to expand to, and probably have a military that is larger and more advanced than yours.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I have played Jao twice now. The second time I realy leveraged his REX Power.

First it has to be the right map. Joao is most effective if there is a second continent or islands to use his uu to be effective. Also some sapce to expand to is neccesary.

What I did ewas set every city coastal where there was any possibility and build the GL. I focus city placement on resource playement, any resource, even if it is excess to what i already have. I look for islands to settle as the overseas domestic sea routes make the city break even even at the start if you have the great lighthouse. I then broker my resources to the other civs to earn money or other resources, giving myself a nice pop cap without a religion. I stay without a state relgion so i can trade with as many people as possible. I beeline astonomy for overseas traderoutes which renders the UU not as usefull except that it can violate open boarders, which can alloow you to plant settlers behind unfriendy civ lines.
I actualy find him to be very powerfull civ if you are playing into the late game as his early expnasion snowballs with his later financial strength.

 

[Roxlimn]

Shrug. I've played Joao about 3 or 4 times now. His early and powerful REXing snowballs into pretty much anything and everything. You just got to know what you're doing. Fast REXing with discounted settlers and workers can wreck your economy royally really fast. Got to know the tricks to offset the costs and go vertical quickly.

 

[paulthebug]

I have finally played Joan for the first time last night. Yes, his fast settler & worker is pretty amazing for fast REXing. However, I have some complains:

1) On high level, you can't REX too much without wrecking your econ. 1st of REXing is typically limited to 4 cities max before code of law. Since this is the case, other leaders can match Joan as well. The only exception being choke point on map like Achieo...
2) I still don't like his UU and UB. Oversea colony before astronomy kill your econ big time due to no sea trade yet. Since this is the case, why not wait till Astronomy for oversea REXing then?
3) Someone mentioned that Colossus combined with Joan's UB is a killer combination for water tile. Yeah, that is true, but with no sea trade before astronomy, I can't reap the benefit of sea trade, making astronomy a priority, which is again, conflicting with Colossus. Given that his UB (I can't pronounce the thingy) need education & banking, which is pretty late, I think further delay of astronomy to prolong Colossus lifespan isn't feasible.

In short, what I am trying to say is, it is very difficult to leaverage Joan's traits, UB & UU together and come out with a killer strategy, unlike Julies Caser's organized&imperialistic-driven prat rush, Gilga's zilga&espinoage-driven vulture rush, or Cyrus financial&organized-driven immortal rush, etc. Joan's UB & UU & traits basically called for different emphasis on tech pursuit.

 

[Roxlimn]

Well, on Prince and Monarch, at least, it's plausible.

Trick is to get Pottery and Granaries in your new cities quickly and get them working on Commerce tiles ASAP. Grow them up superfast. You can't get those Granaries in there fast enough. There's never enough happy, never enough health. River tiles are great for this. Early Farms into early Cottages should allow you a second REX.

Main problem is the happy cap. You need that happy cap up.

 

[cjwet]

For me, Jao is a good choice for continental, terra or archipelago maps.
A fast expansion with a fast tile improvement with a worker army will lead in a fast city growth with all the captured ressources. Also good for trade after currency research.
Having lots of coastel cities, its good to build the GL, the Colossus and the Tempel of Artemis in a food rich production city. This also means getting Great Merchants there.
After the econemy has recovered and the cities has grown large, its time to use the imperialistic trait for war and get more land.
With the UU Jao is the first to reach other continents, so an early domination victory on water maps is possible.

 

[Moxxa]

I like the ideas about combining this strategy with the Great Lighthouse. If most of your cities are costal, you can more or less REX peacefully until you run out of land. This could work beautifully if you start building it in the capital ASAP, use you second city to produce fog-busters and eventually both the second and third cities to make more settlers and workers.

I think I'll try this next time I play BtS. FfH2 is my addiction ATM.

 

[futurehermit]

I'm very skeptical that you'll be able to get rifling first here. It's 1AD, you're producing 28 beakers/turn and losing money at 0% science. And, at some point before rifiling you'll probably have to do something to defend yourself against your neighbors, who have no land to expand to, and probably have a military that is larger and more advanced than yours.

I'm not skeptical at all. I haven't played the game out, but when I left it I was first to liberalism and working on Taj for a golden age. I was ahead of the 3 AIs on my continent in tech, which is all I care about...