The Punic Wars

[sman1975]

Have you considered using the mercenary mod made by JFD and Pouakai?

The Merc management system used in my "Exotic Units" mod is a streamlined version of some of the code in that mod. The referenced mod has a much broader scope than what we'll need here. You also have to remember, what we're calling "mercenaries" has a very blurred line between true mercenaries and units provided by client states that are really in response to treaty provisions between the main protagonists in the game (R&C). So, overall, the use of "Mercs" will be scaled down for most Civs, while being a core component of the Carthaginian army.

I tried to PM you after I saw your message but was unable to do so

Not sure why that wouldn't work. I get items in my inbox fairly often. I opened a conversation with you, hopefully you can just reply to it.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/conversations/german-translations-and-jewish-family-names.499952/

 

[Natan35]

Interesting thoughts overall about the whole GG system. In my opinion, due to the large variety of units expected to exist in this mod, I think the GG system should be rather simple - something similar to the way that the civil war scenario works at, perhaps. I think GGs being upgraded might overcomplicate things a bit, but the whole idea of each civ having one "field leader" and a few other regular GGs actually sounds pretty good to me.
In regards to the mercenary system, I understand.

 

[sman1975]

Here's what I've got done today: custom civ icons for the 12 player civs, as well as the (up to) 20 city states. Their order of appearance is in line with the list of civs/city states in Post #3.

Towards the bottom, you'll see some leader icons. The first 12 leaders (starting with the man in the white toga, 5th row) represent the 12 playable civs. The next 20 leader icons are associated with the city states in Post #3, appearing in order.

The background colors on the civ/city state icons is subject to change. Once I add the civs, I'll have to select the best civ colors for each, so that there's not a lot of very similar colors that make the mini-map in the lower right corner of the map hard to differentiate between civs.

Once I go final on civ colors, I'll update the background of the icons to a color that better matches the civ's colors.

There's always a risk that using civ icons with this much detail will get washed out in the game's UI's that use the smaller resolutions (~32, 45 pixels in width). If the icons at those resolutions become completely illegible, then I've created a "simplifie" version of all the civ's (playable + city state) icons that can be used, either in toto, or just at the resolutions that pose the problem. Here is a snapshot of what those look like:




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I plan on replacing the "City Banner" UI, which is the bit of code that places a banner over a city on the map. Generally, on the right hand side, there is a white "alpha" icon to represent the civ. Boring... The replacement UI will allow the icons above, in all their colorful glory, to be placed where those boring white flags were before.

This pic shows a bit of what the change will look like, even if it's polluted with unit spam:




EDIT: Updated the pictures in the post with the latest versions of the icons. Final colors (foreground/background) are subject to change, depending on what colors I use for the civs themselves. The goal is to have lots of contrast on the mini-map showing the cultural boundaries. We don't want 2 civs as neighbors with very similar background colors.

Additionally, some of the leader icons are missing their background "flair" (those flashes of light that make them stand out in the foreground). I'll add those in later once the colors are set. Makes it easier to select the final form of the flair if I know what colors it needs to be, as altering colors is harder when the contrasts on those lighting effects are so noticeable.

 

[Natan35]

The icons look terrific!

 

[sman1975]

The icons look terrific!

Thanks! I'm pretty happy with them. They have a lot of detail that looks great on the larger icons (the game uses them at 6 different resolutions: 256 pixels wide, 128, 80, 64, 45, and 32), but I may have to rework a "simplified" version for the lower resolution or two - if they are illegible when viewed on the UI's that use those lower versions (e.g. Espionage).

Sorry about the delays on the mod. Have spent the last couple of days delving into ancient, arcane texts, looking for Civ Leader names, titles, etc., to fill out the data on post #3. I need to wrap that up before I can start working on the map. Am hoping to get started on that soon.

 

[Natan35]

I wonder if it is in fact necessary for all civs, big and small, to have 2 uniques... Is the effect a Garamantan UB would have on the game worth the time you would invest implementing it, for example? I also believe UUs are more important to the gameplay then UBs, as I suppose the scenario would play out to be more about combat than about infrastructure.
Edit: of course the more the merrier, but perhaps a scale-down of the accuracy in depicting the smaller civs might make the work on the scenario more smooth?
(Just a thought, it is entirely up to you)

 

[sman1975]

Playable civs require 2 unique somethings (UUs, UBs, or UIs), and while I expect some of the major civs to have enough UUs to cover this requirement, I'd expect less than half will and so require a UB of some kind.

At this point in my modding career, I can add a building in a few minutes. What takes a ridiculous amount of time is spending 3 days researching ancient texts, google-fu, etc., trying to find leader names, titles, etc., looking for data which in many cases simply isn't there. I could have added 100 buildings in that time...

I am planning on this mod to be very broadly scoped. There will be lots of everything in it: units, buildings, improvements, etc. I will do my best to make it look good, and play even better - where if you're Rome, you won't have a cake-walk into north Africa - and even your friends will desert you at the worst possible times. If you examine the way my World at War WW2 Scenario plays, you'll get an idea of what this mod will offer.

 

[sman1975]

Hello All. I've updated Post #43 with the latest versions of icons/leaders that I plan to add to the mod. I'm currently working on building the "mini-mod" - a simplified version of the mod that only adds civs + city states. I need this version to properly edit the map in WorldBuilder.

There's no need for UAs, UBs, UIs, or UUs until the map is finished. I estimated the "civ coefficients" (Post #3, "Relative Power") based on what I've been researching in the past week. If anyone has any corrections, now is a good time to add them. I need at least a rough version of these data to set the population sizes for each city, and also know which cities get what buildings (smaller cities get fewer "standard" buildings, cities further from the capital get even fewer - even if larger), etc.

I'm not adding any units to the map yet, as we really haven't designed the unit packs (generic or civ-specific) yet. The complexities of those packs is tied to the Tech Tree/Social Policy adjustment questions mentioned earlier. The map will take 2-3 days, if IRL doesn't get in the way, so I'd appreciate some feedback on these issues (units, SP's, tech) before the map is completed.

You can leave all this up to me if you'd like, but please don't weigh in later with new suggestions after I've started work on units/policies/tech, and put 40 hours of work into the design that would make that time wasted.

Thanks.

 

[sman1975]

If anyone is interested in helping, I could really use some writing/research assistance. Things like these really slow me down, and aren't technical in nature, so anyone can contribute.

I need 11 "Dawn of Man" speeches - those words that appear after you start the game, and the picture of the civ leader + map appear, waiting until the game is setting up.

Here's what I have for Rome:

Hail mighty Licinius, Pontifex Maximus, Praetor, Magister Equitum, and Consul of Rome! You are the spiritual father of the Republic as it faces its darkest days since the barbarian Gauls sacked your city in 390 B.C. at the hands of Brennus, chief of the Senones. Your extensive knowledge of the Roman way and military expertise, along with your wealth and connections will be most helpful as your beloved city is greatly tested in the days and years ahead.

The wealthy, ambitious Carthaginians lie just across Mare Nostrum, and menace your friends and allies to the west. They have many friends themselves, who pose great threats to the stability of your lands. Those threats are as close as Syracuse, on your doorstep, throughout the Greek lands, even into Asia, where the ambitions of the Seleucids and Ptolomies await any opportunity to weaken your hold and influence throughout the civilized world.

Noble son of Mars, you are once again needed to lead Rome, and direct those who lead its armies. Can you guard your lands and way of life against the rapacious hunger of the mighty Hannibal? Can you achieve victories so great that your foes across the seas will never be tempted to challenge Rome again? Can you build a civilization that will stand the test of time?

Additionally, each civ gets 10 names for spies. Generally, the game uses very generic, simplified names. However, with such an extensive historical record, perhaps we could find 10 meaningful names of personages who could serve as spies. I'm looking mostly not for political/military types - more like merchants, travelers, politicians, ambassadors, etc. I've found that in my other historical scenarios, adding this additional layer of accuracy really adds to the immersive quality of the mod, adding a nice flavor to the end-product.

 

[sman1975]

Quick Update:

All the civs/city states are added, minus many flavor customizations which help govern AI behavior. Version 0 of the map is completed - all cities added, initial relationships defined, cultural borders painted. Here's what it looks like, in both a pure, and annotated state. Please note, there are some "abstractions," as it's just not possible/worth the effort to get the map 100% correct on the start of the war in 218 B.C. The historical record in many cases is as much an estimate as it is a guess on some of the borderline cases. I'm hoping, at best, to get the map as close as possible, then capture the "spirit" of history to fill in the blanks:

Before you get too concerned - most of these "cities" - especially in the hinterlands - will be towns and villages, with hardly any population/buildings to add to the war effort. Happiness will be adjusted so that most civs will have a small surplus at game start.

The hardest part of the map is completed, but I still need to add population to each city, improvements, roads, etc., as well as any buildings that should be there when the game starts. Not hard, but incredibly repetitive, and often a WAG...


Speaking of population, I did manage to find this map via Google-fu. It was unannotated, so I'm not 100% sure what the numbers are near each city. Could it be a relative population figure? Thoughts?



If anyone has any suggestions on city name and/or ownership, please let me know.

 

[Natan35]

Man, this looks awesome. I really need to try one of your scenarios ASAP. Is there any specific civ you want research help with? I can try to help
Also, is there a description of the planned policy trees somewhere?

 

[sman1975]

Thanks, @Natan35, for the offer. All I need is 11 Dawn of Man dialogues for the non-Roman playable civs, as well as 10 spy names for all 12 playables. I already put "generic" names in the mod, but with so many historical personages, such as traders, businessmen, travelers, geographers, etc., I was thinking it could help improve the immersive qualities of the mod to add some historical names to the spy list. And yes, spies will be in the mod, as they'll be a great way to know what's going on in distant realms, as these spies will have increased visibility.

Alterations to the policy tree have only been tangentially discussed. We've talked about cutting it completely down to a small Carthage only panel, a Roman only panel, and a couple of panels available to all. Many game features/capabilities were going to be tied to these policies. I've not completely made up my mind on the best approach - primarily, since many of the advancements in military tech would be awarded through Policies, since there was no tech tree proposed. To me, this felt off, as military progress in the game was largely tied to Culture, not Science. So, work on that area stopped until later in design.

So, to answer your question, no, there has been no progress on what the policy changes are, if any. It's just as likely we'll create a new UI (popup) that looks quite similar to the Social Policies UI, but manages the "Public Opinion" game concept (a complicated but useful "game score" surrogate that governs many features in the scenario). @Mantis Toboggan M.D. has detailed the contents of PO a lot in the OP references, so cf those for more details. If there is a PO UI, I'd expect a different panel for each of the 4 major protagonists (Rome, Carthage, Ptolomies, and Seleucids), plus a separate panel shared by all other playables (Macedonia, Massilia, Pergamon, Syracuse, etc.), with 1-3 "common" panels for all playable civs. We're not quite at the point of detailing the need or contents for this UI, which will need to wait until the map is complete, and the unit structures (see Post #5 in this forum) are final. Once those basics are in place, we'll be at the point of actually designing the scenario that will include features like PO, etc.


Currently, I'm in the process of designing the extra standard buildings available in the scenario. Civ5 offers 8 buildings in the Ancient Era, 10 in the Classical. This feels a little low for a 228+ turn scenario. I'm looking at adding about 25 more, which will mostly be "light" versions of the normal buildings, but with no maintenance, less bonuses, and lower production costs. It will give a player more control on how to evolve their economy during the war to better achieve goals - especially in the hinterlands in cities that are more village than city.

Buildings also begs a question about new Resources/Luxuries. There are a few in the game that date back to these times, but some important ones are missing: Olive Oil, Manuscripts, Glass, Pottery, Tin, Bronze, Obsidian, Hardwood, Lead, Sulfur, Honey, Amber, etc. I mention these at this point, because there is a fundamental question about how these new Resources "appear" in the game. I can place them on the map (since this isn't a map-script-generated map, which makes things much harder), OR I can make them appear when certain buildings are constructed (think the Recycling Center that produces Aluminum). Do I put Olives on the map as a Resource, or simply create an Olive Press building that creates the Resource (with an implied limit to how many buildings of a giving type you can have)?

If these are added, perhaps certain versions of units can't be created without certain Resources (I'm thinking Copper/Tin/Bronze, perhaps Obsidian early on).

I was also thinking that you'd need certain military buildings to create the Light-Medium-Heavy versions of various units (e.g. a "Barracks Light" needed for "Light Swordsman" and a Barracks for the regular Swordsman, and an Armory (moved up from Medieval) to create the Heavy Swordsman. Upgrading units would be controlled, so it wouldn't be a trivial matter to get a Heavy version through upgrades - controlled through massive increase in upgrade costs or some other kind of limiting feature.

The reason I'm dwelling on buildings is I am at the point of adding buildings to cities on the map, so obviously, all the buildings need to be in the mod so I can select them via WorldBuilder. Now, the vast majority of cities on the map will only have a small number of buildings, with a concomitantly small population. But still, the 25 new buildings are a way for me to add more historical flavor without altering game balance very much.


Probably too much detail, but I'm trying to sensitize people to the complexities of building a proper scenario. Way too many "scenarios" for Civ5 are simply maps that look right, with a few added civs that are close to history, then all it does is let those civs run around, doing what AI civs always do - try to guide their civs from the plow to the stars - while the human player adjusts style for an existential struggle, that simply grinds down the AI civs one-by-one until the mini-map has only one color. Boring.

To build a scenario that at least looks like the other civs are playing like they want to survive takes a lot of work in the background. Setting it up properly (maps, buildings, resources, units, etc.) is the first part, but only about 25% of the job. The rest of the effort comes from the SME, which contorts AI behavior in such a way that it at least looks like you're playing a civ who understands the stakes in the near future. Extended discussion like these can be painful, but I find them quite helpful/clarifying as I build the SME so that it will offer a decent gaming experience, and hopefully helps me to write the code only once.

Changing design after programming starts is painful. It take a lot more time to change existing code than it does to write new code. So, getting the design done early - with as few "good ideas" later as possible - saves a tremendous amount of time getting the scenario done. It's the main reason I'm so verbose at this point of the mod.

 

[sman1975]

BTW - if anyone has any artistic skills, it's not too early to start thinking about "branding" the mod. Basically, we'll need a large "cover" picture (think about the one that appears on the top right side of Steam mods, a 512x512 pixel picture).

The contents of that "brand" should be re-usable for other pictures that appear on the Steam Description tab. We'll need more than a few slides to describe the mod, rules changes, new units/buildings/resources etc., game play changes, etc. These re-usable pictures will be highly shadowed (dark backgrounds) so we can overlay text on the picture. I'd expect 3-10 different pictures would be fine. These pictures greatly generate interest in the mod, if we do them right.

The trick is to find a variety of pictures with the same "art style" with each other AND the branding picture (i.e. like they were drawn by the same person at the same time).

If anyone has any artistic bents, I'd definitely appreciate you gathering those, as I simply have no artistic skills at all.

Thanks!


EDIT: Obviously, this image might be the most iconic of the entire war, and really captures the idiosyncrasies of the personalities involved and even the war itself. Maybe more like this one, in color, etc.?

 

[Natan35]

How's that for Antiochus?

Spoiler Seleucid DoM? :

All hail Basileus Megas Antiochus, Most esteemed ruler of the Selecuid empire. Ascending to the throne following the death of your brother, you were faced with multiple rebellions in the east, all of which you swiftly crushed. Following the recovery of your territory, you continued deep into the east, leading a siege that will be remembered for years to come. Setting your sights on the Levant, you returned to the Syrian front with renewed strength, crushing your Ptolemic arch-nemesis once and for all, with your empire almost stretching not only into Africa but also Europe, with possessions on the shore of the Aegan sea bringing you to the forefront of the Middle East.

As you edge ever closer to your homeland, winds of war start blowing from the West. Macedonia, once an ally, had been overrun by Invaders. Although you wed your beloved daughter Cleopatra, there is no time for you to stop and smell the roses, with tensions running high on the other side of the Aegan sea, and the renowned Hannibal seeking refuge in your court.

Great king, your people long for you to retain your prestige and show the world your military might once more. Can your rise above the tides of the Mediterranean Sea, navigating your people to victory at the storm to come? Can you prove that the Seleucid dynasty is indeed the greatest of them all? Can you build a civilization that will stand the test of time?

Also, regarding the question of resources, I'd strongly suggest leaving all resources to the map(except for some special cases maybe). It simply feels more realistic IMO

 

[sman1975]

Thanks, @Natan35 for the DoM. It's exactly what I need to the playable civs!

About Resources: While I like the idea of adding a few to give the mod a deeper, immersive historical quality, the ones I'm looking to add generally contribute to some kind of scenario mechanic. For example, I plan on adding a "Bronze Tipped Arrow" promotion for archer units that greatly increases damage to units. To receive this promotion, a civ must have, obviously, bronze... Bronze is a tricky one, as it is almost all copper, with other alloys added - primarily tin at this point in history. Not much tin anywhere on the map (a bit in the Spain and the Balkans, even less near Tuscany). Most of it from off map civs making it hard to introduce to the game using "normal" (i.e. database only) coding. Could substitute Iron for Tin, but historically, this is a step backwards. And so on...

This is only preliminary at this point, but here are the Resources I'm planning to add into the scenario:

Map-Based Resources/Luxuries: The (xNumber) is the amount of the resource found on the map (these numbers, along with all other Strategic Resources might be further randomized by the SME to offer more interesting replayability)

o Hardwood (Lumber Mill): Strategic Resource (x4) – required for larger ships (e.g. Trireme, Level 3 (Late/Heavy), etc. Might use it for Level 3 Catapults as well)
o Tin (Mine): Strategic Resource(x2) - A "must have" metal to create Bronze. Having this metal will allow certain promotions (TBD)

o Sulfur (Mine): Strategic Resource(x2). This one may fall out. Used as an insecticide, to purify sick rooms/rituals, medicines, pyrotechnics, wine preservation – allows buildings that perform these functions.
o Lead (Mine): Strategic Resource(x4). This one may fall out. Required Resource to construct a "Water System" type building(s) (stats TBD) that generates lots of yields (either a series of new buildings or a mini-wonder)

o Olive Trees (Plantation): Luxury (x2). +1 Happiness., +1 Food. Olives resemble a Strat Res, they are needed to create the luxury Olive Oil, which is created when a city builds an Olive Press (which requires 1 Olive resource)
o Honey (Plantation): Luxury. +4 Happiness, +2 Food
o Amber (Mine): Luxury. +4 Happiness, +2 Culture


Created Resources/Luxuries: These Luxuries are created when a certain building is constructed. These buildings will be quite expensive, taking many turns to complete. There will be constraints on the number a player can build. The name after the resource, in parentheses, is the building that will create the resource. Building names are placeholders at the moment:

o Olive Oil (Olive Press): Luxury. +4 Happiness, +2 Gold
o Manuscripts (Scriptorum): Luxury. +1 Happiness, +3 Culture, +1 Gold (needs a constraint of some kind - perhaps building limit, or other rare/expensive prereq building)
o Glass (Glazier): Luxury: +2 Happiness, +1 Culture (City must be near a desert tile)
o Pottery (Potter): (Not sure if Lux or SR): +1 Happiness, +2 Food (needs a minor constraint of some kind - perhaps building limit, or other semi-rare/expensive prereq building. Need more of these to recreate the ubiquity of pottery at the time)
o Jewelry (Jeweler): Luxury. +2 Happiness, +1 C (requires a nearby source of gold, silver, gems, or pearls). This will be removed from the "City State" Luxury list (leaving only Porcelain)
o Beer (Brewery): Luxury +2 Happiness, +2 Food (requires a nearby source of wheat? Or perhaps a Farm in the city?)
o Cheese (Cheeserie). Lux. +2H, +2F (requires a nearby source of sheep, cow, horse)

o Bronze (Smelter): Luxury +4 Happiness. A special resource; created in a city with nearby source of copper (and that Civ must have at least 1 Tin on hand [tin may/may not be consumed to make Bronze - not sure yet]); Bronze is used for promotions (employ "unit can have promotion" method) – better arrowheads, and also was used as ship rams, so a melee ship attack promotion.

o War Elephants (Khedda): Strategic Resource(x2) – required for elephant units; +2 Gold (must be near a source of Ivory). The extra burden of constructing the building demonstrates the years required to actually train an elephant to fight.


There's a rather circular design process going on right now, where changes in Resources require changes to Buildings and vice-versa. I've cut down the list of both a lot, trying to only add those things that directly impact game play. There are a lot of things I can add to improve historical accuracy, even immersion, but if it doesn't directly impact game play, it's more of a distraction and an addition.

It goes back to the primary design criterion of my "World at War" family of mods: change vertically, not horizontally. This means expand the gaming experience by adding more of the kinds of things that are already in the game, not new concepts with no connection to existing game systems. So, more buildings, techs, units, policies, etc., is good. Brand new concepts, e.g. tax rates, conscription, etc., should be avoided unless it brings something quite meaningful to the game - which ties in to my second most important design criterion: "Go Big or Go Home!" - which means don't add too many things to the player to learn if those things only chip away at the edges of the gaming experience.

Ultimately, it's all a balance between what adds more accuracy to that experience, what's possible given limits in the game engine/my capabilities, player learning curves, etc. And again, it's one of the reasons I'm hammering so hard on getting the design more mature before work begins on the SME in earnest.

And finally, you may not have noticed, but a lot of what appears to be "extra work" on this mod isn't accidental or wasted effort: the design of this scenario is starting to serve as the foundation to what I'm thinking about working on next: a counterpart to my "SMAN`s World at War" series: "SMAN`s Ancient World at War" - a family of mods that expands the game in the Ancient+Classical+Medieval+Renaissance Eras in the same way WAW did for the Eras after that. This scenario will provide much of the framework for that new mod series.

Thanks again for the DOM! Keep 'em coming!

 

[sman1975]

BUILDINGS: Although not nearly final, the attached pic shows the current state of new buildings for the scenario. There are basically 2 kinds of new buildings:

First, there are cheap/early versions of existing buildings that can be added to small cities far away from the capital. As these cities have very little production, it will take them half the game to construct even a few buildings, which means they're only good for training low-level units, and not many of them. It severely limits how a player might want to structure their civ and breathe life into the "replayability" aspect of the scenario - i.e. if most of you cities only produce cannon fodder, you're really only managing a few cities, greatly limiting how you approach, plan, and ultimately play the scenario...

Second, some new buildings are added to properly "govern" the scenario as it progresses from Game Turn 0 to the end. For example, there are several military buildings. Some allow you to train Level 1 units. Some Level 2. And some, Level 3. In some cases (Level 3 warships and Level 3 siege units), you would need a new Strategic Resource (Hardwood). Some of this resource is on the map, but some can be created by constructing the "Hardwood Lumberyard" in a city that has access to the Hardwood resource on the map. This building represents a certain type of efficiency (and therefore lest wastage) when producing lumber needed for these heavy versions of some units.

The buildings governing the production of L1 - L3 units is important, as I'm currently thinking almost NO units will upgrade (from L1 to L2, etc.). This kind of "growth" will be managed thru promotions. L1 (and the rare L0 units - levies, militia, etc.) start with a "Green Troops" promotion, that lowers their capabilities. At a certain point, they'll earn the "Trained" promotion (name change imminent), which converts them to "normal" versions of their type. Eventually, they'll earn a "Elite" promotion, which makes them about 50% stronger than a normal version. However, a L1 Swordsman will always be a L1 Swordsman. Except...

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Side bar discussion: I'm toying with the idea of removing the GG's "Build Citadel" capability. Seems impossible in a monthly game turn situation. If I do remove it (heck, or even if I leave it in), I may add an additional action called "Upgrade Units". If you have a GG in a tile with another unit, pressing the "Upgrade" button will upgrade all units in the tile (yes, there will be more than 1 unit per tile) to the next higher level: L1 to L2, L2 to L3. This will expend the GG unit. There may be some L4 (super elite) versions in a few cases, but they will likely be limited to appearing thru game events, wonder creation, etc., and not possible to train in any normal fashion.

So, GG's may be able to perform 2 actions (Build Citadel, Upgrade Units). If I can get the code working for GG's, I'll probably add a similar capability to GA's as well.

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The chart below is definitely a WIP (work in progress), and I expect quite a few changes before going final. Also, not all of these buildings will be used in the scenario. There are really the basis for my "Ancient World at War" mods which I'm parallel developing with this scenario (side note: these buildings will appear primarily in the Ancient Era of that mod family, with a few in the Classical).

Any/all feedback is definitely appreciated - especially building names!

Thanks!

 

[sman1975]

As the buildings/resources pictures clear, the "military system" is also coming into focus. Here is the current approach I plan on using for the scenario:

A few cities (R & C, perhaps Ptolemies and a couple others), may start off with the "Armory" and "Navalia" buildings present. Perhaps with a bit of free Hardwood as well. Part of the trick in balancing the scenario is structuring things so that it takes a city like Rome about XX turns to train a Hexareme. For example, if we say XX = 24 turns (i.e. 2 years), they'll be able to train 9 at most, even if they build nothing else in the city the entire game. Seems excessive. OTOH, if it only takes them 5 turns, they can crank out 50+, if they can find the Hardwood.

Also, L2 buildings can also train L1 and L2 versions of units, although I'm not sure why a player would want to... Seriously, it may be a question of required resources for higher level units, or simply not enough time to wait. And L3 buildings can train all 3. Will take some programming, but not too hard to do.

Issues like these will take a lot of testing by actual players. Getting this balance "right" is often the hardest part of scenario design.


Mercenaries: We haven't drilled down too deeply on this yet, but there will be rules governing what Mercs can be recruited and under what circumstances.
- Mercs can be hired in any city
- These units are generally "Level 2" in their composition, but may also be heavily promoted/more effective than expected. Very seldom, you may hire a unit only to find it's quite green/inexperienced
- City State relationships matter! Certain Mercs (e.g. Cretan Bowman) can only be hired if you have a really good relationship with the appropriate (ala Knossos) city state. If that city state is captured, then you don't care about the relationship (you're basically hiring the exiles after conquest).
- The better the relationship with a City State, the cheaper the Mercs will be. Conversely, the worse the relationship, the higher the price.
- Mercs require no maintenance and do not count against your unit supply stats. They also do not require Strategic Resources
- Mercs can desert (esp. if City State relationship is poor). The ratio of nearby friendly units matters here. If your army is mostly Merc, it's a lot less reliable. If only a few units, they'll behave better
- Mercs can withdraw from attacks, often at the worst time
- Mercs can also join your enemies, especially if those enemies have a great relationship with the owning City State
- Mercs unguarded near your cities can often steal gold from your local temples/treasuries. They can also pillage improvements and randomly destroy buildings in your cities.
- Mercs are hired for a set contract - initial test number is 24 turns (2 years). At that point, they usually simply disband. In some cases (small chance), they become Barbarian units wherever they stand. They may also simply go to nearby AI civs and become part of their armies (keeping their XP/promotions with them)

If anyone has any other suggestions governing Merc behavior, please let me know.

 

[sman1975]

Good morning everyone. A quick update: as the design for this scenario matures, it's became obvious to me that we're looking at a very complex mod. This is a good thing, but I'm sensing a conflict

If you didn't know, I have a large family of mods called, "SMAN's The World at War" -- (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1562440077). This mod group reworks the entire game in the Industrial and later Eras. I'd always intended to code a similar mod that reboots the first half of the game as well, but just haven't started it.

As we've delved deeper into the Punic Wars mod, it's become obvious to me that building a deep, wide-ranging mod for only this scenario might not be the most efficient way of accomplishing all my goals for mods in this time frame.

Therefore, I've decided to put the Punic Wars scenario on hold for a few weeks so I can get the framework mod done first.


I'll start working on the "SMAN's The Ancient World at War" (AWAW) mod immediately. As y'all have been such great contributors in the past, I'm inviting you to join me in the development of that mod, and designing the framework that the PW2 scenario will ultimately use:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/smans-the-ancient-world-at-war-awaw.664974/


Believe it or not, completing AWAW won't really slow down the completion of PW2 all that much. But what it will do is make it much easier to build other scenarios (First/Third Punic Wars, Conquests of Alexander, Struggle in the Holy Land, Invasions of the Sea Peoples, the Persian invasions of Greece, etc.) in the future. Having a structured framework, as well as a fairly reusable SME will make generating scenarios much simpler, and much faster.

So, please join me in developing AWAW as quickly as we can, so we can use PW2 as the first installment on what I hope are many, many more scenarios in the future.

Thanks.

 

[sman1975]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - completing the "base" mod for this scenario was more intensive than I'd originally planned. However, now that the base mod is completed, I'm quite happy with the results. It's available for testing, if anyone is interested in helping me get the mod balanced. Because getting the base mod balanced will greatly ease the process of building this scenario, which will act as a layer on top of the base mod, using its resources, with additional controls/adjustments to the game's internal logic, to get it to behave like a limited scope existential war rather than a race from agriculture to the stars...

Here is the link if you'd like to help out testing the base mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2422701461

Thanks!

 

[Zygmunt]

Seems nice, It took me to your steam workshop page but i can't find where to download it